Dear Fatties,
I had a different entry I was planning to write today – maybe I’ll even still write it. But as I read over the comments to a painful journal entry posted by a dear friend, I knew I had to say something else.
Just stop.
Stop justifying your fat because it is muscular. Stop justifying your fat because you are “curvy.” Stop justifying your fat because you have a tiny waist and an hourglass figure.
Just stop.
You aren’t actually helping.
In fact, all you’re doing is continuing to reinforce the idea that only SOME bodies, only CERTAIN bodies, only bodies that meet a vague and indistinct criteria set are acceptable.
That’s not how it is. So just stop.
Your fat doesn’t need justification. It’s just fat. You don’t need a list of why your fat in particular – different from OTHER people’s fat, is the implication – is just fucking fine. You just need to say: Hey, I am fat and that is okay.
Your body is acceptable. You don’t need to justify it, especially not in ways that exclude other bodies.
And when you do? When you make comments about how you’re all muscle or how women are supposed to be voluptuous (explicit or implicit mention of “skinny bitches” required), you’re just perpetuating the problem of societally mandated acceptability – of our culture thinking women’s bodies are public property, to be weighed and measured and ranked like livestock.
Just stop it.
I know some of you are still finding ways to make peace with your body – not even at a point where you can think about loving it but still learning not to actively hate it, still learning how to stop actively harming yourself as punishment for your body. If saying, “hey, my body is muscular,” helps you form a more healthful relationship with your body, that is awesome and amazing and you should absolutely cling to that. However, that’s different from using “I’m fat but it’s okay because I’m muscular” as a justification.
The first (”I like my body because it is muscular”) is a really positive statement. I can get behind that a hundred thousand percent. “I like my tiny waist,” is the same kind of statement. It’s when you set those things in opposition to fat – as though it is somehow that quality that makes fat as a concept okay – that I start to physically cringe and restrain myself from commenting back to you (because it’s neither the time nor the place) that my waist is not tiny and my fat is still okay.
We have to learn a whole new way to talk about bodies, particularly fat and thin bodies, if we want to move past this obsession with thinness and fatness and bodies that meet a ridiculously stringent set of aesthetic standards. We have to stop, on the level of our very language and word choice, cease to perpetuate the idea that fat must be justified, must be logically judged based on a list of pros and cons. Fat just is, like brown hair or being short.
Excluding other bodies just adds to the layers of cultural body hate that we need to be unpacking. Remember, the goal isn’t to just expand the restrictive beauty paradigm – it’s the bust the whole thing up into little bitty pieces so we can build a new and different paradigm. Our words are how we shape the world. Let’s use them, consciously and powerfully, to swing some sledgehammers around in here and make the world we really want – where fat is just fat and bodies belong to individuals and you don’t have to justify your existence and dignity and sense of self worth.
Love,
M.
54 Comments
Hear, hear! I keep telling people this every time they mention phrases like ‘real women’, ‘men like it curvy’, and ‘but I still have Marilyn Monroe’s waist-hip ratio!’ (?!)
A good friend of mine has had WLS and can’t stop talking about weight loss, even though she knows about FA and the beauty myth. First I tried to avoid the conversation, but now I realize it’s actually beneficial for me to fire back responses – FA and acceptance of my own fat body becomes in fact a lot more real and tangible when spoken out loud, to someone who is partially open to it but too caught up in weight loss and calories. When she goes “you should read Weight Loss For Dummies” and I say “No thanks, I’d rather read When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies” I feel better for it, having said it out loud.
Okay, all of that was a bit off topic. But this friend keeps using mixed language – fat is okay, I want to lose weight, people should just accept me, watching calories really helps, I’m fat and wearing a bikini anyway, I still have a waist and big breasts, etc. Confronting people who are using mixed language when it comes to FA with how they’re not actually helping, is a good thing.
Having to be really clear about your own position is totally valuable. And sometimes there is nothing like a debate to really clarify your points. I’m glad you feel comfortable standing up for your yourself that way – and I LOVE the “No thanks, I’d rather read When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies” line. Love it.
Agreed. I’d also like to bust down the “apple, pear, hourglass” only shapes. I am not any of those and I’m still a good shape, whichever dang fruit you want to call it.
And so is anybody else who isn’t any of those three shapes.
You are shaped like you. I am shaped like me.
It’s pretty awesome.
omg, yes, those shapes. I have yet to find any fruit that looks like my body (maybe something really wacky from a mystic tree on a tropical island?); and what the heck is up with that, anyway? Having to reduce a woman’s body to something that is non-human and typically an object that gets eaten or used. ಠ_ಠ
I recently bought a pair of “pineapple” pants. Kid you not. Very comfortable though.
Keep up the positive thoughts!! I needed this so much this morning! I like my boobs and my hips!!
I like to think of myself as Awesome Fat-Accepting Girl! (well, maybe not quite all the way to Awesome Fat-Accepting Girl! but still somewhere on the way) – I change the subject when my friends get on to the subject of their or other people’s diets, I don’t do the ‘I can’t have nice clothes because I’m fat’ fandango any more, all of that good stuff – and I still do this.
My husband got a benighted little app for his Android called SportyPal that tells you how many calories you’re burning doing whatever, and every time he talked to me about it (which was a lot, because he’s one of those guys who cannot shut up about whatever his latest obsession is) I would go into ‘Well, I may be fat but at least I get a lot of exercise and eat salads all the time, because I like salads’ justifying-my-existence talk. Eventually I asked him to just find someone else to enthuse to about SportyPal, because however much I knew that it wasn’t about me, it was just making me crazy.
I love you.
My issue is identifying myself as fat, only to be shot down by people. Everytime I say “I’m fat” someone will say “No you’re not.” or “You’re not as fat as that person.” When I tell them how much I weigh (220ish lbs), they’re surprised and say something like “Well, you don’t look like you weigh 220 lbs.” I have yet to ask what weighing 220 lbs is supposed to look like.
Yesterday I called myself fat during a conversation with my friend (I was talking about the fact I can’t go shopping for clothes at certain stores), and when she said “You’re not fat” I said, sarcastically “Ok, I’m “full figured”" (I even did the air quotes thing with my fingers). That euphenisim was okay with her. For some reason, my friends won’t let me be fat.
Your friends won’t let you be fat because in this society being fat is equated with every negative stereotype imaginable practically. Fat is evil, they know you are not evil, therefore you cannot possibly be fat.
I believe Kate Harding wrote an article about that a while ago… this is the one: Does my butt look fat?
Whenever someone starts with me all “You’re not fat!” I send them the link and then explain in my own words.
Whenever I call myself fat in public, people always look at my husband, as though he should totally start disagreeing now. Sometimes people even have the audacity to say something about it. He just shrugs and says, “What? She IS fat. That doesn’t mean I don’t love her and think she’s hot. I mean, look at that ass.” Which normally results in us laughing hysterically, and everyone else just being confused. Because even the SO’s of thin women feel the need to rush and say “Of course you’re not fat, honey!”
It’s just silly.
My fiends are the same. Except for two (one fat herself, and that’s such a relief because we can talk about being fat and our experiences together), all of my friends and acquaintances visibly flinch when I call myself “fat” or immedoately go: “You’re not fat!” Yes, I am.
But they think of all the negative connotations society links with fat, so what they’re trying to tell us is: “You’re not ugly, smelly, lazy, etc.” :/ On the one hand, it’s good that they realise this, but on the other hand, they need to learn to understand and deconstruct this thought process.
Thanks for this. I needed to hear it this morning.
It’s a trap that I find myself falling into, more often than I’d like: “Well, I’m fat, but…” comes out of my mouth (or into my brain) way more often than I’d like.
Time to start watching for that more explicitly.
Some of my favorite posts are the one’s where you are so pissed of you just have to come here and break it off. Cuz brilliance flows out of your mouth.
er, fingertips.
Yes. Your body does not need to be justified. It just is! Fabulous perspective. Thanks for sharing.
YES YES YES!!! I find that whenever I mention my fat or simply acknowledge its existence, acquaintences will say, “yeah but, you hardly eat at all/you eat really healtyh or but you’re really pretty!!” as a way to make me feel better?? I can’t say it enough to their faces that I love my body no matter what, they still feel the need to make it okay to THEM under the guise they’re making it better for me. WHAT.EV.ER.
Thanks for that! I really need to read stuff like that more often. And I really could have used it some 40 or so years ago, but what the hell– better late than never, especially for accepting and loving yourself as you are!
YES. THANK YOU.
This is something I do in my own head, and it’s become a form of self-sabotage – especially since my body tends to shift fat around depending on the season and my stress level. I used to tell myself, “It’s okay because I still have a bustline bigger than my waistline.” Then it became “Well, it WILL be okay once I get more in shape and reduce my waistline again.” Then, measuring my friends and myself for a potential knitting project a few weeks ago, I found out my bust/waist/hip measurements are about even. Cue the body image guilt and depression, because I’d set a useless, arbitrary “standard” for my own body shape.
It’s creating a reason to feel bad about your body and the bodies of others.
Okay, now I’m thinking I might replace my “Know Fat Chicks” button with one that says, “I’m Fat And That’s Okay” Thanks!
I’m 360 lbs and I’ve gotten, “but you’re not fat like other people I’ve seen” or “you carry it really well.”
We all carry it well, no matter what our size or how our fat is distributed.
Wow. Just…wow.
I don’t do this out loud, but I know I’m guilty of saying it internally to myself. I want to stop.
If you liked this post, you may also find this one interesting: Stop Telling People to Love their Bodies
Will work on this. Fantastic post, by the way.
I think the reason people cling to that stuff so much (and yes, I am 100% guilty of it) is because when you feel like so much about you doesn’t come close to the beauty standard, you want to latch onto any one thing that you do have. It’s often not intentionally meant to elevate oneself at the expense of other bodies (although that’s exactly the effect, intended or not), it’s typically meant as a “I have an hourglass figure, so I’m not TOTALLY worthless, only 95% worthless” or something like that.
But of course you’re right. When the effect of that kind of talk (or thought, for that matter) reinforces the idea that there is such a thing as an acceptable/unacceptable body, or that certain traits of bodies are inherently “better” than others…there’s no place for it in FA.
I love to describe myself lately. It reminds me of a scene in “THe Mighty Boosh”: “small eyes like a crab”.
As a size 14 with 38DDD I guess I “qualify” for curvy or voluptuous but those words have never resonated with me. I would best describe myself as a titsy-potato shape (I don’t see THAT in the magazines) with a slight apron-tummy (childbirth FTW) and a wide yet boring flat ass (my husband loves my ass & is always grabbing it: wevs). I also have tiny hands and slight googly-eyes (no one will confirm this last but I suspect it). SO WHAT. That’s me. No amount of flowery language in my mind or on my blog will change who I am. I like who I am although often I wish I was more conventionally beautiful. It passes.
That would be a great post, M. For fatties to write the words that DO resonate and self-describe (for good or ill) and the ones that DON’T (whether we wish they did or not).
Great post, as per usual!
Marianne, brava! I am always so inspired at how radical your compassion is (or is it how compassionate your radicalism is?
Hooray for sledgehammers!
Thank you. I recently had an annual exam and had blood work that was fine. No issues. And so I found myself patting myself on the back and using it (mentally) to justify my existence. Fat but healthy, etc. (In this one way) I am a ‘good’ fatty, I was telling myself. Ugh. I had slipped right back in to defending my body and making excuses. I needed the reminder that none of that matters.
Thank you.
I think a lot of us go through this stage where we realize that the current beauty standard is crap, but we can’t quite shake off the notion that beauty is an important metric of worth, and to be an important metric, must still have an exclusive/inclusive divide – some people must still be un-beautiful for our beauty to “count.” So then we start gerrymandering the borders of beauty, dragging the edge over here so we fit in, but “those people” (very slim women, fatter women, less buff women, less curvy women). Which, while it may temporarily help us individually feel better about our bodies, really does fuck-all to dismantle the poisonous structure.
Anyhow, thanks for posting this – I don’t know if I read the same entry you reference, but I read and commented on a similar one the other night. I wrote out a justification of my fatness (to accompany a comment about how fucked-up body image made me leave an activity I loved), then deleted it before posting, then agonized about adding it back as a secondary comment – on the one hand, I knew that describing my body in justifying terms while coupled with a description of how awful I’ve sometimes felt about my body would only hurt people who didn’t meet the artificial “standard” for “acceptable” fat I would have been setting up. On the other hand, a tiny part of my brain was convinced that if I didn’t somehow show how I was really an “acceptable” or “justifiable” fatty, everyone who read the comment would immediately come to the same conclusions my self-hating brain had come up with that I was posting about – that I was worthless and that by being fat I was somehow ruining things for all the non-fat people who also did them.
Obviously, while I can sometimes recognize the gerrymandering of beauty standards, I haven’t quite gotten the hang of never wanting to do it. I’m hoping that will come with time. Augh, super-long comment, sorry.
Great post! I am trying to “just quit it”, believe me…
[My friends don't like to let me be fat either]
I think it’s really, really difficult to talk about one’s body in a way that avoids judgment. It’s ingrained in us to constantly judge every ‘body’, or at least that’s how it feels.
We’ve accepted that there is no more black and white, that there are shades of grey with regards to much of our behaviour, thoughts and choices…but at least we can still qualify bodies. Yours is ‘bad’. Yours is ‘good’. Welcome to the new morality for a materialist future.
Somehow saying “You’re not fat” is read the same as “You’re not bad”, but the fact is that bodies are not moral objects. They are INNATELY fine, simply for existing (this is where self-love begins). Thoughts and behaviours can be ‘good’ or ‘bad’, but bodies simply are, and for that we should be grateful.
Still, the beauty myth is tempting. I love beauty and beautiful people, but unbeautiful people are not unloveable, and all loved people are beautiful. Does that make sense?
Marianne,
Okay. The part where I get stalled is when I see my body as an illustration of behaviors that I want to change. I’d like to eat with integrity and eat in harmony with my body. I want to shift away from eating mindlessly, and I view my body as a reminder that I haven’t yet arrived at my destination. It’s a mirror of my behavior, and that’s a place where I want to invite positive change. I know (yes, I’m a Geneen Roth groupie) that the change I’m seeking will come from kindness to myself and the language that you’re suggesting is on that road. Still figuring it out,
Maggie
Maggie wrote: ” I know (yes, I’m a Geneen Roth groupie) that the change I’m seeking will come from kindness to myself and the language that you’re suggesting is on that road.”
But what if it doesn’t? I love inspirational words that challenge thinking and promote personal growth….but what happens if all the kindness you have given yourself DOESNT net the rewards and changes you are seeking? Because the truth (in my humble opinion) is often that certain things can be out of your own control…especially in regards to your body. And especially if you have tried again and again and again through diet and exercise and lifestyle changes to reach those goals you set for yourself?
I became the most content with my lot in life when I came to this realization…that there ARE things that are out of my control, including my body, and I need to love myself NOW-TODAY-AT THIS WEIGHT for true peace to come. But that is my own journey and others have their own journey to make to whatever end they are seeking. And that’s truly ok…no judgement.
Also: I don’t want to plug myself, but you have inspired me, and I just thought you should know. Thanks!
In fact, all you’re doing is continuing to reinforce the idea that only SOME bodies, only CERTAIN bodies, only bodies that meet a vague and indistinct criteria set are acceptable.
It’s an idea that is both born out of and reinforces the idea that weight fully controllable. If each person’s body weight is under their control, then
– Body size is a conscious choice.
– Bodies can be optimized for beauty.
– Bodies can be optimized for health.
– Bodies can be optimized for utility.
– How well someone maintains their body can be determined just by looking at them.
But it’s not. Weight is about as heritable as height.
If saying, “hey, my body is muscular,” helps you form a more healthful relationship with your body, that is awesome and amazing and you should absolutely cling to that. However, that’s different from using “I’m fat but it’s okay because I’m muscular” as a justification.
I also love this. I post a fair amount about exercise, because exercising makes it easier for me to do more things without hurting. This does not make it “okay” for me to be fat. It means that it’s on my brain because I’m consciously working on it and I think it’s nifty that I can do more things without hurting.
This was really confronting. I am one of the “I’m fat but I’m also muscular so it’s okay.” people. I enver really thought about it before, and what I’m really saying when I say it. I’m saying all of this I’m excluding others and showing I’m still not okay with myself.
Thankyou. I’m going to print this out and keep it in my room to remind me. Thank you.
I love how you get straight to the point and make the points that desperately need to be made! We can always count on you for timely reminders and frank, no bullshit kick up the butt words that inspire and motivate. And this is one of the all time great FA posts.
I love everything about this post Mariann! Because…yeah…stop the self hate! It doesn’t look good on ANYbody. And while we’re at it…how about if we stop the “I’ll jump the gun here and go ahead and snicker at the use of the words: hefty, giant, huge, big, tremendous, etc. when I use them in a sentence”. You know what I mean…like when someone says “I had a huge (har har) headache the other day”. I cringe everytime I see that…and have even been guilty of doing this myself. But I finally realized what I was doing and why….like beating “them” to the punchline before they could make fun of me…and decided I’m just not going to play that game anymore. Those words don’t always pertain to someone’s size…and I am not fully defined by my size….so why do I always feel the need to make a joke about a commonly used word when posting on a FA website?
Just my two cents. Thanks for such an awesome post about TRUE body acceptance! It kicked ass!
I don’t really talk about my FA positions with my friends, though, if they are paying attention they’ve probably noticed I don’t talk diets or engage when they do.
So it’s unusual for me to talk about fat. However, recently I have been confronted by my fat by curious children asking, “Why are your arms so big at the top and skinny at the bottom?” and “Why is your belly so big? Are you pregnant?”. In both cases, I was happy to share with them that this was just my shape. It was a great teachable moment for the kids and a nice way for me to practice some public FA. I love that I didn’t feel shame or a need to justify anything. I wish some adults would ask me why my arms are so large, but alas, they usually just wonder in their heads.
I would sure appreciate some help from you ladies. This is a bit off topic, so forgive me, but here goes: I have a friend that I can’t stand to be around. We’re both fat, but I’m the one that’s down with FA; she on the other hand dislikes both herself and other fat people. Dislike isn’t a strong enough word for the feelings she has about herself; loathe would fit. She is one of those that likes to say she loves herself, and that’s why she hates herself, because self hate will motivate her. Forgive me, that’s a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the idea.
Last night she went on and on about how she wants to lose weight, because it’s making her joints stiff and she feels old (of course she slipped in a few “I want to be able to shop anywhere; I want to be able to ride theme park rides…”). I told her to try some exercises like yoga and get plenty of water, and that should help her joints; I told her she didn’t need to worry about a number as long as she was living a healthy life. As usual she put up the walls (the number of fat people that do that with regards to FA continues to astonish me) and shot down everything I was trying to say. I don’t even like being around her and her negativity anymore. How should I handle this?
Sorry to hear about your friend troubles. It might be good to cut back on time spent with this friend and avoid being in situations/groups that seem to encourage her weight-related negativity. If she has redeeming qualities as a friend otherwise, that is. If she isn’t kind to you and enjoyable to be around, no reason to drag it out—-become suddenly busy and let the friendship go. Some life changes mean outgrowing a friendship and this might be one of those times. Whatever you do, remember that you deserve to have great friends!
Thanks for your reply. I’ve seen my friend very little since I read your reply, and my stress level with regards to her have dropped dramatically. I made it a point to only see her at a fun group gathering that she was helping to put on where I knew she would be too busy for negativity. It worked out very well, and the evening was lots of fun.
I have a problem getting caught up in justification. When I was younger, it was the boob thing: I may be fat but at least I have (men love my) nice boobs. More recently my justification has shifted dramatically: I may be unattractive (because I am fat) but at least I have a loving husband.
Both of these justifications bother me immensely because they rely not just on an outside standard but very explicitly on the outside male standard. (Although I suppose most of the appearance justifications do…)
Anyway, I can recognize those and try to stop when I see myself doing them. Much more insidious, for me, is the health justification: I may be fat but I’m healthy!
When I am talking to non-FA people it is a huge temptation to lie about my health stats, like cholesterol or blood sugar. And I would have to lie. Because I am not healthy. And I never have been, regardless of my weight.
All sorts of random bad genes run in my family, from near-sightedness to thyroid problems to hypoglycemia to bipolar disorder. The one ‘good’ stat I have is low blood pressure — if by good you mean so low that I sometimes fall over when I stand up.
I’m never going to be a healthy fat, and trying to set that up as my justification is damaging to me as well as other people.
Marianne,
love you. Just bought your book, thought you should know it was in the diet section of the bookstore. Thought that was funny (you don’t have to post this on the blog)
Thank you for writing and posting this. These are my feelings exactly. I get so tired of seeing and hearing the “good fat/bad fat” dichotomy played out by people justifying their fat. My particular issue is with the word “curvy,” and the number of women who describe themselves that way as a means of distancing themselves from “the rest of the fat ugly hoardes.” As a non-proportional fat woman who is not hourglass shaped, I get so tired of seeing this dichotomy maintained.
I love you. Thank you.
It’s taken me a long time to get to the place I’m at where I don’t do this very often, and it’s still something I need to be reminded of, and a thing I wish more people really understood.
This weekend, a little girl I know asked me, “How did you become fat?” And I said, “Oh, I was mostly always fat. Most people who are fat are just fat, and most people who are thin are just thin; I know that in storybooks people are always changing their size by what they eat or how much exercise they do, but in real life people come in all shapes and sizes, and most people’s shape or size doesn’t change depending on what they eat or how much exercise they do.”
“Oh, okay,” she said, and then we went back to playing with her dolls.
DUDE! I WOULD NEVER HAVE HAD A GOOD ANSWER FOR THAT WITHOUT YOUR AND KATE’S BOOK AND YOUR WEBSITE AND THIS WONDERFUL COMMUNITY.
EXACTLY Marianne!!! Not sure if this was already said or not, but that is why I CRINGE when I see Facebook groups like “Curvy Girls Are Better Than Skinny Girls” and see all of my fat friends and FA friends joining. There really isn’t any genuine self-love, self-appreciation or self-acceptance achieved in the act of hating on another.
The one thing I try to do, to de-stigmatize fat, in my own small way is this: Whenever anyone tells me, “You don’t look like a size 18!” or “You don’t look like you weigh 215!” I say, “Yes I do. THIS is what a size 18 (or 215) looks like.”
I recognize that they are trying to compliment me, but I also want them to know that these ’scary’ numbers are not the end of the world.
I love this post – sums up powerfully and precisely how I feel about this. Thank you – you’re awesome and you rock!
For me, it’s not so much justifying as being incredibly pissed off at people who just assume I eat too much when no, I have multiple hernias along a foot long scar that I probably wouldn’t have if it weren’t for the goddamn adhesions that hurt so much I mistook my appendix rupturing for a pulled muscle and didn’t get into the hospital for five days. Lazy? Fuck no. In pain every damn day? Fuck yeah. And yeah, it’s been a bad couple days in terms of pain, so I’m a bit bitchier than normal.
Thank you! I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Because my fat body doesn’t equal huge boobs. Because my curves are in all the ‘wrong’ places. I somehow don’t have hips. This doesn’t bother me much, except when I hear my fellow fatties unintentionally or not bashing my body for not being the more “desirable” fat body.
My body doesn’t have to look a certain way or attract anyone in order for me to accept it.
Thank you.
I try to save the justifications for my doctors: and that’s more “never mind my weight, look at my blood pressure” (because the latter is a medical question).
I have complicated reasons for exercising, but the weight isn’t near the top of the list (if it’s there at all): it’s about a feeling of control over my health*, and about endorphins, and about liking having muscles I can do things with.
*Not necessarily having control, but having a feeling of control, the idea that I can decide to go lift weights, and walk long distances. Yes, there’s an obvious failure mode there: I do get grumpy if I can’t exercise for some reason.
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[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Marianne Kirby, Sassy Sarah and Lillian Behrendt, Maurice Hayes. Maurice Hayes said: RT @TheRotund: Dear Fatties, Just Stop; The Language of Justifying Our Fat: http://www.therotund.com/?p=905 [...]
[...] reason for this post is that Marianne Kirby of The Rotund has a post that complements my post on being unconcerned with beauty. Because I absolutely used to do what [...]
[...] Dear Fatties, Just Stop; The Language of Justifying Our Fat — Great post from Marianne at The Rotund about the pointless of justifying and approving of certain bodies over others. [...]
[...] The Rotund: Dear Fatties, Just Stop; The Language of Justifying Our Fat Your body is acceptable just the way it is. If you’re fat, stop trying to make your body “better” in others’ view by calling it something else. [...]