I recently got an email with a really fantastic question that I wanted to spend some time on answering. I’m bad at summing up, so I’m not going to try to relate her story to you but the important context is this:
“So, how do we open ourselves up to almost certain rejection pointed directly at weight, without sliding backward on the FA? What are your thoughts on that?”
Man, that totally hits me where I live (i.e., my big fat body. *grin*) because dating is one of those issues that just doesn’t get easier and it isn’t easy to begin with even if you have a socially desirable body. And so here are a couple of the things that I learned when I was dating. I didn’t get married until I was 30, so I feel like I have a little bit of experience, enough to at least talk about this some.
1. The best place to start with this: reminding yourself that dating is a crap shoot no matter what your body is like and anyone who jumps into that pool is also struggling to keep their head above water. Now that I have stretched that metaphor to its fullest, I shall explicate.
See, dating is hard. It’s putting yourself out there, mentally and physically and emotionally, and doing so in a way that invites not only the scrutiny but the criticism of others. That seems counter-intuitive, doesn’t it? Especially when we spend so much time discussing that your body is your own and other people’s opinions are just that and don’t mean anything when it comes to your relationship with yourself.
Finding a balance between that FA ideal and the reality of dating is so freaking hard. But it’s also what everyone involved is doing – fat, thin, and everything in between. Dating can be a lot of fun (I certainly enjoyed it) but man. It’s a rough ride sometimes. Just remember – yes, you will experience rejection and some people might cite your body as the reason why. But dating is, in large part, about weeding through people who just don’t mesh with you for some reason and it could just as easily be that you are a redhead and they don’t like redheads or that you watch more tv than they are interested in or whatever. Dating involves rejection on a fundamental level.
2. I used to do this church thing when I was in high school that was essentially a bunch of us studying scriptures before school. And our teacher was quite fond of saying “You marry who you date.” That’s one of those ridiculous circular statements that happens to be absurdly true. And we brushed it off the way teenagers do.
But it’s still true. And applicable here! You marry who you date. Yes, it is disheartening to be rejected by douchebags who think your body is unacceptable. But do you really want to date someone who sees the world that way anyway? Do you really want to marry that kind of person (if you are interested in getting married – some people are not and I am in full support of people making the choices that are right for them in that regard)?
That’s kind of cold comfort when you’re facing rejection. But it’s also true. People who would have rejected me based on my body…. There came a point for me where I didn’t want to date them anyway. That became a criterion that predicated my own rejection of someone as a romantic partner. There’s enough body hate in the world; why would I want to invite someone into my life who didn’t also get that on some level?
3. There are more people out there than you think who won’t care or who will find your body attractive just as it is. I think that scares people for some reason – this idea that people might actively like fat bodies. It gets written off as being a fetish but, dude, it is a preference the same way some people prefer blondes or short people or whatever. Looking back over my dating history, I apparently have a strong preference for stocky blond guys. I married a stocky blond guy, in fact. That doesn’t make it a fetish and he shouldn’t feel cheapened just because I tend to get seriously involved true to type. You have to accept that, yes, people will like you for your body and that it’s okay for that to happen, too.
4. I said rejection is a fundamental part of dating – I really mean that. It also isn’t about you as much as it is framed that way. It’s about the other person and their own preferences, prejudices, and unexamined shit. Especially on dating sites.
Speaking of dating sites – has anyone ever found themselves a happy relationship based on OKCupid? It seems to be best used for hookups. I don’t even know.
Anyway.
Rejection feels personal because we’re already operating with some self-esteem stuff going on that makes all of this harder to manage. But keep it in mind. This is so much less about you and so much more about whatever the other person is looking for.
5. Don’t be a douchebag. Apply your FA to other people as well. It doesn’t work to be all “omg, I accept myself but that person is unacceptable” – there are a bunch of things you probably won’t want to compromise on and a lot of stuff on which you absolutely should not compromise. That’s not what I’m saying here. I’m saying that if I had only ever dated stocky blonds, I’d have limited my pool of potential partners exponentially. I dated lots of different types and sometimes got myself a nice surprise when the chemistry was there and I hadn’t expected it. Don’t expect your potential partner to look like someone out of a magazine – remember that those people in the magazines don’t even look like that.
6. It’s another kind of dangerous thing to say but make sure you are actively engaged in being the kind of person you’d want to date. That means don’t sit around like a lump. Go and do things and make your life what you want it to be even without a partner. That makes you not only more attractive to other people but also it keeps you from wallowing in your partnerless state. Build the life you want regardless of whether or not you are dating.
That also gives you the chance to meet more people. Dating is, unfortunately, an almost inescapably extroverted game. It isn’t fair and there are some other venues you can explore if you are an introvert, but getting to know other people pretty much always involves getting to know other people in a social way.
This does not mean it’s your fault if you are alone. It improves your chances of meeting people with similar interests. But nothing can guarantee it. At the end of the day, even if you don’t meet someone, you’re living your own life on your own terms and that has huge amounts of value.
There is, of course, more to say on this subject. But I also don’t want to blather on endlessly. So I am cutting this off here for now to get the conversation started.
63 Comments
Yes, yes, and yes. I have to say this post totally hits the key points I’ve had to teach myself about dating. I like to think of the rejection as a social filter. I had a nose ring in college that I wore specifically to weed out all the people at my uber-conservative school that I knew I didn’t want to bother with. I love the idea of the body that I’m comfortable with and often proud of being a social filter for dating as well.
Also, I should mention that I had a really great experience dating a guy from OKCupid. But I think it worked partly because I was willing to be assertive and write to guys rather than just waiting to receive a message. My ex-boyfriend (from OKC) would never have emailed me first.
Thanks for this, and for the reminders. I’ve been pretty solid with my commitment to FA for many years. But I’ve found myself really slipping in the last couple of months, to the point where I’m sort of dieting again (after not dieting for 6+ years).
And it’s all because of my loneliness and desire to date. I’ve done all the “make a good single life” stuff, and am a pretty awesome person, but haven’t been on a date in more than a year. And I’d gotten myself pretty convinced that my weight is the only reason. Because if it’s not, then what *is* wrong with me?
But, if there are guys out there who prefer larger women, where do you suggest one meets them? I’m on every dating site, go to singles events, participate in a number of hobbies (admittedly, female-dominated ones). I’m at a complete loss as to what changes I can make to meet someone other than losing weight.
This was some of the stuff I wanted us all to talk about and that I wanted to cover tomorrow hopefully as well. Basically, I recommend letting your friends know you are looking. I recommend online dating. And I recommend remembering that even losing weight would be no guarantee of meeting someone you wanted to date. It’s easy to blame our weight or to think there is something wrong with us but that isn’t the deal – generally. I mean, you might be an awful person but I doubt it.
It’s not that something is WRONG with you – it’s that some trick of timing just isn’t hitting right right now. There are always things you can do to improve your chances (and it sounds like you are doing them) but there are no guarantees and that is the shittiest, suckiest thing to swallow in all of this. Because if we were rewarded for the work we put into this, everyone I know who is interested in it would be happily partnered. It isn’t fair and it isn’t right and I am not sure there is any way to change it but sometimes you just have to wait out the dry spells. Keep doing what you’re doing – making your life happy.
And if you aren’t, add fat-friendly singles events to your repetoire, check out dating sites, and – as I said – let your friends know you are looking adn the kind of person you are looking for. “Just a person” isn’t really specific enough. “A geek who appreciates red wine and anime” or whatever gives people a lot more to go on.
Y’know, one of the most surprising and painful aspects of “dating while fat” for me has been the response of some of my friends when I’ve told them I’m looking, or asked them to keep an eye open for someone for me. There are a couple of friends who met that request with absolute silence. Over time, when I realized it wasn’t an isolated event, that this was how they’d always respond, I saw that these particular friends don’t see me as datable. And yes, I’m assuming it’s because of my weight since these people are friends to me in every other way, but are also chronic dieters.
It was very disappointing to see this side of my friends revealed, and honestly it’s damaged those friendships. Better that I should know the truth about their limited regard for me, but it’s still really, really disappointing.
It is hurtful isn’t it? It is almost as though they don’t consider that you have the normal range of feelings and emotions as ‘real’ people.
Sigh.
I went on dates with SEVERAL guys from OKCupid.com who didn’t seem to care one way or the other about my weight, and ended up liking one enough to have been with him for over a year, now. I don’t know what area you live in, but where I am, you have to do some wading through the losers (and I use this term to mean the hook-ups and illiterati), but you’d have to do that anywhere, I expect. It takes time, yeah, but you don’t WANT a guy who wouldn’t date a fatter you. You want a guy who actively wants to date YOU, as you are. And I bet you anything there are a million of them you just haven’t met. Good luck. It’s a hard thing, dating–and I HATE it. But don’t change yourself to make it easier. I bet you’re awesome just as is.
One way I look at it is that if the other person has an issue with how I look, especially how I look naked, then they don’t deserve me naked. Screw that, life is way too short to worry about how you look while having sex.
As far as OKCupid, I met up with one person who ended up being a FWB, but I have yet to have an ongoing relationship with anyone I’ve met on there. I have, however, had several relationships that started from getting to know the person on other social sites, mainly LiveJournal. I much prefer being friends with someone before getting involved with them.
I will admit to having serious butterflies the first time I met my TOCOTOX because of my appearance, but was quickly reassured that I was lovely. *grin*
I’m also a firm believer in being complete and whole as an individual, rather than looking for someone else to fill the gaps or “complete me”. Doesn’t mean I am actually whole, I have lots of cracks, but I don’t expect someone else to fill them. I like people who complement me, not complete me.
I know there are people out there who consider me totally unattractive because I’m fat. *shrug* I find things unattractive about other people. Doesn’t mean they’re bad people, just means that we’re not suitable as romantic partners. And that’s perfectly fine.
I know there are people out there who consider me totally unattractive because I’m fat. *shrug* I find things unattractive about other people. Doesn’t mean they’re bad people, just means that we’re not suitable as romantic partners. And that’s perfectly fine.
Abso-damn-lutely.
A coworker a few years back was talking about how she knew this guy who was a FWB because she knew he wouldn’t laugh at her when she was naked with him. And I was horrified. Because there are usually signs that someone is going to laugh at you long before you take your clothes off and I would NOT subject myself to that, omg.
And that should *not* be the basis for an intimate relationship, IMO. I want people who like my cute butt and big boobs, not just someone who tolerates how I look.
Life’s too short to be with people who aren’t appreciative of all my charms, kwim?
I am thoroughly in this corner — anyone who does not think that my body is damn sexy does NOT get to see me naked. I want someone who is actually attracted to me, not just putting up with the fat because I have big tits ;P
I tend to be friends with people I date first (often through LJ), and that does tend to weed out undesirables — because they know what I look like by the time we meet, or we’ve met in person before, so there isn’t an adjustment period. And I know what *they* look like, there’s no blind-date “Are you Steve?” moments
I met/connected with/became better friends with my current partners through LJ, which really provided a great cushion because there were years of friendship and getting to know each other before we ever kissed.
(The one exception to that is K, who I met through friends as a teenager, and reconnected with as an adult when he contacted me.)
I don’t know if it will work for everyone, but I honestly have found LJ to be great for meeting people who I might be attracted to, or who might be attracted to me . . . so for people who are looking to expand their social circle, maybe join some interest communities and get to know people through your friendslist?
Good points! I’ll build on #2:
If Maxim is unlikely to solicit you for a cover shoot, consider your looks a Jerk Filter, wherein jerks are the people who are only looking for a trophy to hang on their arms and make them look good. If you’re dating online, always make a realistic picture available up front so you don’t even have to know if someone takes one look and goes elsewhere. If you’re out somewhere, focus on people who aren’t themselves focused on the most conventionally attractive people in the room. Let the jerks take themselves out of your way!
Also, remember that being conventionally drop-dead gorgeous, and therefore without a Jerk Filter, means you have to deal with the jerks. This should greatly reduce any envy you may be feeling for the “pretty girls.” Allow me to reminisce….
I tried speed dating once. While waiting for it to start I chatted a bit with the one fashion-magazine-beautiful woman in the crowd. She was very cool, quite a nice sort. Once the event was underway I wound up stuck with a fellow who actually got up from my table during our conversation time and went to the adjacent appetizers table, talking to me with his back turned while he gathered snacks. His body language was not much more welcoming during his conversations with the other women near me – except for that one conventionally beautiful woman, over whom he was alternately fawning and boasting of who-knows-what. I dearly wanted to warn her but he latched onto her as soon as the event ended and, poor lass, she allowed herself to be chatted up. At that point my remaining sadness and frustration melted into gratitude for my precious Jerk Filter.
(Incidentally, I would still recommend speed-dating to anyone considering it. I did get a date out of that one event, and probably would have tried it again if I hadn’t met my husband on match.com sometime shortly thereafter.)
I got into a conversation today that both pushed all my buttons (which is a good sign that I should not continue the conversation, because I won’t handle it with anything like grace) and seriously flummoxed me.
Someone added my journal to their friends recently, and so I added them back and didn’t think much of it. Today I saw the first post I’ve seen from them. In it, they were responding to a question someone had asked them about their desire to lose weight.
I’m not generally one to wade into people’s discussions of their personal desires to lose weight. I don’t feel like that’s my place.
However, one of the things she said is that (and she attributed this bit of ‘wisdom’ to her brother) she’d like to get married someday, and that while some men like fat women, they only like them “as a fetish” and don’t want to marry them, so if she wanted to get married someday she’d have to get thin (and she posted some example photos of women she wanted to look like — her goal is somewhere in the “woman in a hip hop video” territory — mainstream fashion model thin, except with big boobs and butt).
That sort of thing — the idea that nobody will marry a fat woman — drives me up the wall because it’s not only false, but trivially provably false, and yet people repeat it as completely unexamined truth. So I did post a comment about that part. (The gist of the response was that if you go out in public in North America it takes you about 30 seconds to find a married fat woman, ergo, fat women get married. If one is inclined to believe that *all* of those women were thin and then became fat post-marriage, it’s not hard to find photos of fat women in their wedding dresses online, or even better, just look at the existence of bridal dresses in larger sizes.)
She did respond to me, and said that she does accept that fat women get married. However, she said that her self-esteem is too high to become involved with the kind of men who like fat women. She said that she mostly likes tall, thin, white men (she herself is black) with “gorgeous eyes”, and she’s never in her life seen such a man with a fat woman, so she figures that she’ll keep trying to lose weight, but that maybe when she’s in her 60s she’ll break down and settle for the kind of loser who asks her out now, or she’ll settle for an older black man.
At which point my head pretty much exploded. (It was hard to not feel personally affronted as well, given that I’m a non-white fat man married to a fat woman personally, but that was the least of the concerns, really.) Anyway, that was the point where I dropped the conversation, but I really just wasn’t sure where to go from there. I mean, I’m fairly sure that even if I could find an example of a tall, thin, white man with “gorgeous eyes” dating a fat woman, she would find sound grounds on which to shoot him down as a loser, on the basis that he’s with a fat woman.
She also added later that she’s never once seen a fat woman with a guy who she would stoop to being seen with herself. (She did allow that those women probably thought the guy was attractive, personally.)
Anyway, like I said, brain explodey, conversation dropped. I’m not sure if dropping it was the right thing to do at that juncture or not, and if not, what I should have said, but…
I used to think that way when I was a teenager. Later, I noticed that some fat women were with very attractive, interesting men. Then I became that type of fat woman. She’ll have to sort it out in her own time.
Wow, that is… flummoxing.
I’m a fat white woman married to a thin white man. Though he’s not tall, so I guess that’s why he settled. /sarcasm.
I had similar issues about dating for years. While I was comfortable with my own body and the image I was projecting, I had a lot of concern about how my partner reflected on me. When I found myself really attracted to a shorter bald guy, I had to do a lot of soul-searching in order to get to a place where I felt comfortable dating and being seen in public with him.
I also had issues with dating fat guys, ironically because I was fat myself. I didn’t want to be see as “that fat couple”, as if I would become fatter by association!
Nowadays, I don’t give a shit what other people think of my partner — it only matters that I find him attractive. But it took me a long time to get there.
I’ve been fat all my life, and in high school I was so terrified of touch I completely barricaded myself from guys, not even having friends who were males. The summer after my first year of college I got a job in a pharmacy, where a guy very slowly endeared himself to me–at eighteen, almost nineteen, I finally had my first kiss.
Since then, I’ve always been EXTREMELY picky. I’ve only dated (only ever KISSED) two other guys (my current beau I actually met on OKCupid and we’ve been together for over a year, and now share an apartment) and I’ve found that while yes, I could go out and meet someone who sees me as “she’s fat but she’ll do me”, I’d much rather be picky and search for a guy who finds me beautiful and smart and hilarious, and whom I find beautiful, smart, and hilarious, too.
It means such good things for my self esteem that I don’t settle for someone who’s settling for me, and I hope your other readers realize that, too.
Beth said: “But I think it worked partly because I was willing to be assertive and write to guys rather than just waiting to receive a message.”
I second this about a million times. I met my husband on an online dating site (not OKCupid), but he would never have written to me first. I wrote to probably 40 guys over the course of six weeks, and got perhaps a dozen dates out of it. None of the nice guys I met that summer wrote to me first.
I got a few opening e-mails from guys, but as I recall, every single one of them was clearly only interested in no-strings sex, which is fine if that’s what you want, but not what I was into at the time. (Except that one guy. And I wrote to him first anyway. But that is a different story.)
Big (ha!) fan of this post. Wasn’t even thinking about dating but now I’m all smiley and happy-thoughty about the hell that dating can be. Not enough to revisit my profile on OKCupid (lol), but…
First of all, excellent post!
Secondly, there was a point in my life where I actually felt good about myself, I was really listening to my body and giving it the exercise and food it needed, pretty much living the HAES dream, even though I didn’t know what that was at the time. And even though I was still fat by any definition, I dated a ton of different guys, none of whom I felt like I was settling for. It was during that time I met my husband, a wonderful man who I wouldn’t think I deserved at other points in my life. So I think it’s all about feeling good about yourself and where you are in life. Some guys I only went out with once and I reckon they did reject me due to my weight, but so be it, there were guys I didn’t want to date a second time, and no one was outright rude to me.
I would also recommend that you be true to yourself first and not compromise who you are to please a romantic interest.
Finally, not all dating sites are equal. Some sites list their singles in order of their popularity and would not be the best dating site for larger women. If you are going to go the dating site route, do your homework first because some sites are more size friendly than others.
I’m confronting another kind of issue with the fat fetish thing, which is how comfortable I am dating someone who has an expressed preference to date fat women and ONLY fat women.
I like him, we get along intellectually just fine (we’ve only been dating a few weeks), but I’m reluctant to get further involved with him because I feel a bit squicked out by having a body type that meets someone’s stringent attraction requirements like that. I don’t know. It’s complicated because, as I said, we like each other not just physically, and I am attracted to him as well…
I have “types” too, I guess, as you mention Marianne. Like, I don’t tend to be attracted to blond men. BUT I’d never rule out completely a blond man, and this guy that I’m dating absolutely rules out dating any thin women. Is it weird that I am squicked or should I just accept him for his preference and be glad that we’re compatible in other ways?
I’m a big believer in trusting one’s gut – if it’s bothering you, I think it’s important to listen to that.
That is a good point, Jane. Obviously my gut is telling me something isn’t quite right here.
It’s always bothered me, too, Kristin. I find that having a preference for a certain look is one thing, but when it moves beyond preference to an ONLY, then I have challenges with it. For me personally, it is challenging.
I want to be with someone who loves 80 million things about me, not just my fat ass. And I’d hate to think that if my cycle of weight gain reversed itself for some reason that I’d no longer be attractive. It’s as problematic for me as people ruling me out because I’m fat.
Good riddance.
Another OKCupidian here, and yes, reader, I’m marrying him. Not to derail, and I’ll get to what it’s like dating whilst overweight in a sec, but I liked OKC precisely because it was billed as a DATING site, not a “FIND YOUR WUN TWU WUV” site. (Um, and it was free.) If your goal is to get married tomorrow (which if it is, bully for you), then eHarmony, Match, etc. are your friends. I just wanted to, you know, DATE. Play the field. Find people who weren’t necessarily a 99% match for me, because whoa, boring.
I got messaged a lot, I rejected and was rejected by a lot of dudes, I went on a TON of first dates, very few second dates, and a teeny number of third+ dates. It was fun. I got what I needed. Eventually, I met The Love of My Life (it only took two or three years).
But more about my weight and dating: No one (well maybe Karl Lagerfeld) would say I was fat and I don’t think of myself as fat, but I am BMI approved overweight, edging on obese. I weigh more than my (average sized) fiance, but not a whole lot. Maybe… 20? 25 pounds? All I’m sayin’ is, I’m MAYBE an in-betweenie, and I got rejected on weight, but I liked to think of it as a Helpful Screening Device.
Guy Who Posts “No Fatties”
Does anyone respond to the man who posts this in his profile? ANYONE? Not me. Thanks for self-rejecting yourself, douchey!
Guy Who Has No Picture But Demands Full-Length Shots of You with No Preamble.
Dude. Please. *BALEETED*
Guy Who Asks “Are you sure you go to the gym? Have you tried dieting?”
Have you tried smacking yourself really hard in the head? I hear that’s good for a lot of things.
Guy Who Posts “I keep myself in shape and expect the woman I’m seeing to do the same.”
This guy inevitably hates however you look.
All of which is to say, online dating is a serious time-saver; there’s no way to know if that Cute Guy Over There is a screaming douchenozzle until you talk to him, but his online profile will tell you everything you need to know.
I also love the “I want a woman who takes care of herself / who cares about herself” dudes. Um, yeah, I take care of myself and care about myself. That’s why I’m plump and happy and healthy! But I’m betting that’s not what you really mean, buddy.
Yes, Sid, you nailed those douches right on the mark! I’m also an OKCupidian, and when I see those guys, I can’t help but think, “Really? Do you ever expect to get laid? Like, ever?” So sad. Maybe one day they’ll wise up.
I know three married couples and a number of successful relationships that started on okcupid. I met one of my long-term partners there. I am 100% pro okcupid, their algorhythm is brialliant to the point that it matched me with my partner of 8 years as my number one match in the WORLD, out of millions… and we weren’t even around eachother when we answered the questions.
Also re: dating.
I’ve been polyamorous my entire adult life and so have experience with a broad swath of relationship successes and failures. When I was 18, I was skinny (but homely, as far as I thought), and while a lot of people would hit on me, I only fell in unrequited love time and time again. At 30 (now) I am fat (100+ lbs more than my earlier weight) and not only do I think I look pretty damn good, I seem to be attracting people that are a thousand times better for and to me, and that fulfill my demand for mutual fascination at levels I never dreamed possible before. I’m not saying that the fat’s irrelevant, of course that’s not the case, but as RuPaul says, If you don’t love yourself, how in the hell you gonna love someone else? True facts, y’all.
I wasn’t going to go into the polyamory thing (other than the fact that I mentioned partnerS above), but YES — I have found the poly community to be very FA-friendly in my experience. (Now, of course, that experience may be skewed by my location or self-selection preferences, because the people who approach me already know what I look like . . . but I’d say that there is definitely some fat acceptance in that community, more than in the larger dating world, although it’s certainly not universal.)
I certainly get more positive attention now than I did when I was a size 10 and looking to date monogamously.
(I’m not looking for new relationships and I’ve had to turn people down, but it’s fair to mention that openness to poly will open up your dating prospects a great deal.)
Thank you so much for this! I am 32 and divorced a year ago. While I haven’t started dating seriously yet, the thought of fat dating terrifies me. I’m sure this is mostly a self-esteem/drinking the kool-aid problem, so your post was v. helpful. I especially like and need to take heed of #6 – as do all of my other single friends. And that one also works for making friends.
I think this is great advice, and pretty much what I am trying to do as I have recently re-entered the dating game.
My roommates met through OKCupid and they have been together for about 4 years. They are the most compatible couple I have ever met. They have lot of interests in common and a similar outlook on most things. It was these common interests that helped him notice her on OKCupid. For what it’s worth they are both fat.
I am currently trying out OKCupid and I have stated clearly on my profile that I am fat and believe in Fat Acceptance. I also have posted a fairly straightforward waist-up picture of me in casual wear. And I made a point to mention how nerdy I am.
I figure these things should weed out anyone who I don’t want to talk to.
I agree with all of this. I feel like it might be pretty beneficial to add a cliched “No one can love you until you love you” statement. I think that’s the #1 thing you can do to improve your dating situation. If it takes you a few years, then that’s just dating prep. But attempting to date without getting that entirely under control is just inviting heartbreak. It’s not a guarantee, of course, but any breakup that happens becomes way more likely to affect you negatively in such a way as to think that you are completely unworthy of love – which is never true.
Also, I met my husband on OKCupid almost four years ago! It happens.
But if “no one can love you” that would mean you’re inherently unloveable, and how is that different from “completely unworthy of love”?
I hate that cliche because it’s all, if I may phrase is bluntly, hey depressed people, either get over it or stfu and die alone because no one could possibly ever love you. It’s not always so simple that it only takes “a few years,” and it’s kind of hard to love someone who is so horrible that no one could ever love them.
This isn’t all-inclusive, naturally. If you don’t want to take that mindset, that’s fine, but I think our natural inclination should be to love ourselves. It’s society that makes us think otherwise, and that’s the society we fight against as fat women. It’s reclaiming confidence. I admit that my way of phrasing it is cliched, but I don’t think your “stfu and get over it” interpretation is at all accurate.
About a year ago, maybe a little more, a gay friend of mine meet a guy on OkCupid. They just got married last month.
It was like magic from the beginning. I was excited to get to watch things unfold. I love them both!
I’m on OkCupid myself, though I haven’t gotten a nibble. I would chalk that up to my anti-socialness. While I am “death fat” (that always makes me giggle), I haven’t received any “hate” messages from guys. I haven’t really received anything actually. *laugh* Of course, I have a TON of filters. I’m surprised I ever got married to begin with. Being polyamorous is tough enough, add to that the fat, the lack of desire to achieve “The American Dream”, being tuned into the -isms and being an ally to stop them (sexism, racism, ableism, etc., etc., etc.), my utter geekness, and the fact I haven’t left the house but one or twice in the last three months, *laughs* and we see what my problem is.
I guess what I’m trying to say is, sometimes dating isn’t the end all be all. I understand people want to pair up, form social groups and support systems, be loved and have fun. However, all this can be done without dedicating one’s life to it. If I could give advice to folks, I would say stop trying to date, and start trying to live, the rest will come. Of course, that’s just how I see the world.
Your mentioning “hate messages” made me giggle.
One day a month or so ago I got a message totally out of the blue from some guy asking why all the bi women on OKC were fat.
Wow, didn’t know I was the spokesperson, but wev.
I replied rather snarkily about being happy in my relationships (I’m poly) and feeling sorry that he felt the need to slam other people.
I can’t remember what exactly he said back, other than throwing out more hatred and vitriol. I replied thanking him for providing my husband’s and my morning entertainment.
He didn’t respond after that. I wonder why…
Like the article. I think finding boyfriends/girlfriends is a little different in Australia, seems much less like the whole dating culture in the U.S.. Still has some of the same problems though.
As for OkCupid, both myself and a close friend of mine met people on there, and met our current partners there who we both live with. My partner and I are very happy, and my two friends are engaged.
Lots of polyamourous people on there though, but they almost always declare upfront, so if you aren’t into that kind of relationship you can know.
No Chubbies! Thanks Dr. Phil!
See, this is the sort of thing so many need to hear. Again, go you for making it so clear, concise and lacking in BS. Yet another reason you rock.
Also, saw you on Dr. Phil and if you couldn’t tell from my eleventybillion tweets, you rocked and you’re a total hottie. Everyone is a little bit gay for TheRotund. *nodnod*
I’ve actually had 99% of my (well over 100 in the last 2 years) dates come from OKCupid. EHarmony seems to be mostly non-paying members, and my experience with POF and Match has been more people looking for hookups.
Friends are no help, they’re all married and only know other married people, and for the most part, don’t live in the same city (or state) as me.
I agree that my run of bad luck really has little to do with my weight, and more to do with the fact that I’m not looking for just any old guy. I’m looking for a good match, and when you’re as brilliant and awesome as I am, that’s really hard to find.
But the weight DOES significantly limit the pool. Maybe I’m not going out with as many jerks, but the few and far between situation tends to make one feel a little worse than if your phone were ringing off the hook.
I don’t agree with the “if he wouldn’t date a fat girl, he’s not the sort you want to date” statement, though.
I believe there are lots of people out there, men and women, who are good, smart, open minded people who’ve just never questioned the conventional beauty thing, because they’ve never had anyone in their life suggest that they should.
Everyone around them tells them that fat is bad, ugly, something to be feared. That fat people are stupid, lazy, hate themselves and have low self-esteem. Most of the real, live actual fat people they know go on and on about how gross they are, how much they hate themselves.
It’s pretty easy to just go along with the idea that fat people have a lot of characteristics that make them unsuitable relationship partners, and not just because of the way they look.
That first line was meant to read 4 years, not 2. I don’t have *that* much free time.
While there may be folk out there that could be eventually persuaded away from their fat-phobic thoughts and go on to date someone of size, it’s not my job to get ‘em there. If someone else wants to step up and provide Educational Dating Services, good for them. And I’d be happy to exist in a person’s life as an Awesome Fat Person. But OH HELL NO I’m not going to fling myself at them romantically. I’m not a masochist. I’ve put up with enough fertilizer dating guys that were evidently attracted to me. I don’t want to put up with a different brand of stinky crap, I’ve had quite enough of that.
It’s my Dating Policy. My desires come before theirs, full-stop. No pity dates, no missionary dates, no putting up with unacceptable behavior. I love myself enough to know how I ought to be treated.
I’m not saying I would want to try and be the educator, either. I certainly am not interested in trying to *persuade* someone to date me. I was just saying that we shouldn’t throw everyone who’s not dating us into the “jerk” pool.
Hey Toni–I totally hear you on the frustration about the decreased dating pool–not all the people who are filtered b/c they think they are unattracted to fat people are really jerks. A LOT of people (i.e. MOST people) believe the story that being large means you’re unhealthy. Case en pointe: my roommate, who is an amazing person in many many ways, recently went on a date that led to her telling me that she wasn’t attracted to big guys (she’s super into health and athletics, and wants a partner who can “keep up” with her so to speak). I was extremely upset to hear her say this (being a big person myself), but I engaged with her and I feel like she actually listened and was willing to challenge herself on this prejudice.
All the same, it actually was incredibly thoughtless of her. And anyone who’s challenged themselves to think about this issue thoughtfully will realize that it’s not ok to automatically discount someone because of their weight. (Even if they don’t know all the stuff like about HAES, someone with good values ought to be able to realize that discounting someone because of their appearance is shallow.) But the problem with fat as a filter is that it filters out everyone who isn’t thoughtful/smart *on this particular issue* even though they may be a thoughtful/smart person in many other ways. Sigh.
I really appreciate this topic/article/post but I do want to say: I think it’s really ok to feel bad and frustrated that as fatties, we have to deal with this extra layer of prejudice in our lives. It is painful. I recently had a convo with my roommate about her not being “attracted” to large guys that was extremely painful. Reading on someone’s profile on OKCupid that they won’t date someone who is “not fit” is painful. Because it’s not just a silly preference like hair color. It’s a preference that reinforces a system of prejudice that permeates our lives and affects us on a daily basis.
The fat filter can often be very useful, and there are lots of people who do not harbor this prejudice. And it is worth it to keep trying and to not focus on the jerks (there are plenty of them). I just want to acknowledge that dating for fatties is not hard only because dating is hard, but also because it brings us into very close contact all too often with a prejudice which we (I at least) are trying to overcome in our internalized selves and, bit by bit, in our world.
what a great post! I also believe my fat is a bit of a dating filter: I don’t have to deal with the sort of people who would pretend to be nice to me because they want me as a trophy. It’s pretty awesome!
The post above about the livejournal person who only goes for tall, thin, white men and never sees those sorts of men with bigger women is just…sad. I can’t really say I have a type, but I know something I have found attractive in every one of my partners has been confidence and self love.
And I agree with being the sort of person you would want to date. For women, I think, this is something that is easier if you are attracted to women. I tend to dress for myself, but I also dress and act the way I would be attracted in seeing in another person. I know that sounds a little dodge, but it’s been the push I needed sometimes.
Just chiming in on OK Cupid: That’s how I met my husband of three years
We had apparently been matched before on Match.com but neither of us were paid members, so we couldn’t talk to each other. Then when he saw me again on OKC he emailed me.
Although, I will say that I very *casually* dated the other people I met on there, before we got together.
Interesting that I come upon this post because I’m trying to revive my old Dating While Fat Blog. Gosh I did it a lot–date that is. I’m in a relationship right now and we met on a BDSM site, which in some ways is more accepting of fat but in other ways not.
I tend to like men who like and love women, period. There are men out there who just love women in all our similarities and differences. The pool is slightly smaller for us, but there are some real gems in it!
Thank you for your statement, “It gets written off as a fetish…” This “fetish argument” comes up again and again, round and round like a record, baby. As I see it, it’s fine and great to be open about fetishes – but in the “mainstream” world, the word “fetish” has a sleazy, off-kilter connotation to it. So it becomes easy to marginalize and diminish a person’s genuine sexual and aesthetic attraction to fat people as a “fetish” (with the implication that there’s something unbalanced and obsessive about it.)
Unfortunately, some people DO approach it in a creepy and/or unbalanced way. There’s the person who wants the tall, thin, blonde “trophy girl,” and the one who wants the fattest woman he can find, because that’s the only one who will line up with elaborately constructed fantasies. (I always wonder what will happen in the latter case if the woman in question becomes ill for some reason, and loses a great deal of weight? Will she then become no longer lovable?)
Thank you for this; as far as I’m concerned it can’t be repeated often enough, especially by fat women themselves. Even *within* the movement there’s still a considerable number of people who will automatically dismiss any guy who expresses a physical interest in a fat woman as a creepy jerk type. I don’t know whether that’s just (as you suggest) a result of the way some women may baulk at the idea of attraction having any basis in physical appearance (and wouldn’t almost every aspect of life be infinitely easier if it didn’t?) or just the result of the pervasive stereotype of the predatory, internet-based, ‘fat admirer’ identity as promoted by Dimensions et al, but I do think it’s sad that even within the fat acceptance movement we still feel the need to marginalise one another and fall back on stigma and stereotypes (in this case of the sort of men who ‘go for’ fat women, which denigrate both equally). As it is I’ve seen equally appalling behaviour in men with the very much socially encouraged preference for thin women. Some men are just pigs, and I’m not sure it’s necessarily a size issue so much as one of patriarchy and messed-up gender relations.
For what it’s worth, and though we’re going back a few years, I met my now-wife on http://www.bbwpersonalsplus.com where I found that since many of the fat people already actively identified as such, they tended to be further down the road to self-acceptance than on the more mainstream sites such as Match.com (lots of clearly very big people who nevertheless described themselves as ‘medium build’ or ‘a few extra pounds’ – profile honesty for the win, folks). Whilst we both encountered some oddballs (and not of the good variety – usually I consider conformity / ‘normal’ to be highly overrated) and though my wife had to deal with many more of these which were much more, shall we say, ‘direct’, than I, they were fairly easy to spot and screen out. Again I doubt that differs considerably from the mainstream sites, in that it’s a sad indication of the messed-up relations between men and women of all sizes in wider society. However the crucial difference I noticed was that (as mentioned) use of these sites requires one to first a) acknowledge and take ownership of one’s size as part of their identity and b) accept that the people you meet are probably there because they’re at least to some degree attracted to people of size. I personally found that and the resultant ability to dispense with the whole conversation about fat, weight loss, dieting etc a considerable advantage; others I can appreciate might be less comfortable with it.
Random question, did you attend LDS seminary in highschool? Are you an exmormon?
Ok, here’s a “dating while fat” question for you folks:
I have great respect for people who may have little or no formal education, who are still happily making their way in the world. But I do have quite a lot of education, and find that I need to date someone who at least has some, so that we have that shared experience and communication style.
When I’ve looked at personals sites focused on larger people I’ve found that the education level tends to be pretty low.
Has anyone else experienced this? What do you do?
I’ve actually found more of a mix on the fat dating sites education wise, though generally more less educated folks. I think that has a lot to do with the fact that women are becoming more and more educated as a group than men (some recent stats on this came out a few months ago about educational level and marriage with a huge increase in wives who are more educated than husbands for example). I am overly educated with a fancy ph.d. that men literally step away from me when I tell them about, but come from a low socio-economic background which means I like people who feel more ‘down to earth’ to me, which tends to mean they are more blue-collar like. This is at least a big part of why I have never been able to marry any of the men I’ve dated. The highly educated men were too full of themselves and not down to earth (for my taste, not generalizing all highly educated men either) and the down to earth guys were sometimes intimidated by my education or didn’t share interests with me. Now I live in the middle of nowhere with a much larger female population and every single guy above 25 is married, so I don’t even DATE here.
Getting back to the general subject of the post that freaks me out some. I’m 33 and thinking I might have to move to an urban area to find a single man to date. LTR? I don’t know. I have some strange kind of hope about that. I can’t really explain why, as I’m deathfatz and all of the above, but I think life is long and I’m going to find someone who complements me. Well, that’s what I think when I’m not depressed…:)
I honestly feel like this sort of issue is more at the heart of why I’m still single. Nearly *all* of the men who contact me on dating sites are less educated, and, at least from a quick review of their profiles, seem to be less intelligent and from a very different background than me.
Many of my friends tell me that I’m being way too picky and demanding, but I know myself well enough to know that I will only be compatible long-term with someone of the same general intelligence / educational & socio-economic background as me. Might be picky, I might get criticized for it, but it’s what I need to make a relationship worthwhile.
But the intersection of smart, educated, intellectual guys with guys who will date a fat chick is very, very, very small.
Preach it.
I needed to read this post right now. Dating has been really getting me down lately. Thanks for the wise words
Off topic, but I have to ask, and my apologies if someone else has already asked this- was the high school church thing Mormon seminary? I was raised Mormon and I remember being told the exact same “you marry who you date” thing in seminary.
This is my first time to your blog and so far I love it. I saw you on Dr. Phil and had to come check out your site.
I wanted to comment on the dating while fat topic. I am 32 and have now been married for going on 4 years. I dated quite a bit and used some of the dating sites but didn’t have very much luck. I ended up meeting my husband through a friend. I always said that I wanted to meet a guy while I was fat so that I would know that he truly loved me for me and then if I ever lost weight it would just be for me and not to please anyone.
I would hate to think that someone was with me just for my looks. Back when I was dating it was tough. I would go out the clubs with my friends and would usually never be approached at all but I still had a good time. I quickly realized that most of the time the guys that hit on my friends were just after one thing anyway. I definitely get the whole weight as a filter because that is exactly what I felt. I am still overweight now and I am married to a wonderful, loving, handsome, caring, intelligent, and giving man. I feel that I am very blessed.
All I can say is never give up hope. The right person is out there and if you give it time you will find each other. My mother had always told me you just never know when you will meet your true love. You could wake up today and it could happen. My parents have been married going on 34 years and they met one night at a party, got engaged the next day and were married within 6 weeks. For them it was love at first sight and they just knew it. The same kind of thing happened to me.
My husband and I met on New Years Day of 2004 and have been together almost every single day since. We moved in together in March 2004 and were ready to get married right away. We did end up waiting to get married until July 2006 but that was only because we were trying to save up money to pay for the wedding. In the end we couldn’t wait anymore and ended up going to Las Vegas with some of our family and getting married.
I am now in the process of losing weight. I am not doing it for looks or anything like that. I am very happy with who I am but I have fibromyalgia and I am losing weight to help with my pain. I just want to have more energy and be able to do more of the things that I want to accomplish but don’t have the stamina to do. I just want to be healthier and do not aspire to be some skinny person. For one my husband likes me the way that I am and he does worry that if I lose weight I will leave him. I have had to reassure him I am with him because I love him and not because I settled or because he was the only one that would have me. I had plenty of options and I married him because we love each other. I know he knows this but just like women, men can suffer from self esteem and I think he tends to do that.
Sorry my post ended up being so long. I just wanted to say that it is true fat women do get married. In my family I have 2 sisters who both never struggled with weight like I did. Granted they both have had kids now and are a little overweight but nothing like having the obesity that I have. Anyway one sister has had 2 failed marriages and is now in another one that is extremely dysfunctional and not happy at all. My other sister has 2 kids but never got married and is now single living at my parents house. I am the only one that has found happiness and has a man that loves and respects me. It has nothing to do with looks at all. I respect myself and looked for someone that would love me and not treat me like crap. I don’t take any crap from people and won’t be walked all over but unfortunately my sisters have not gotten into that place yet. They both go for jerks and losers and I can only hope that one day they see the light.
Love is blind and can and will happen for you if you open yourself up to it. Do not ever lose hope.
All this stuff right here is OMG super hard for me right now. I am terrified about making a play for someone and having them laugh at me because I’m fat, whether it’s to my face or behind my back.
I have a pending Fat Dating Dilemma which I’ve posted about on LJ under a filter, if you have a moment to offer advice. <3
Okay, so I went for my first online date today. Or I tried to. He watched me walk in to the coffeeshop and then he texted me that he was in the parking lot and that he got called into work. My profile pic is just face, but it’s chubby face, and my profile lists my body type as BBW. Is this not enough? Do I need to title my profile DEATHFATZ? Do I need to spell it out to them? Because I don’t want to go through that experience again.
I think you do need to spell it out. A full body shot will help work as a jerk filter.
You dodged a bullet that day though
That must have been horrible. I’ve done a lot of online dating (like many, met my husband there) and I was always terrified of that happening. I just put on my profile exactly what my dress size was and “If you don’t like larger women, please don’t contact me as you will be disappointed”. Some people might read “BBW” a just a bit chubby and not really get the full extent of your size. I felt a bit weird putting that on there, but it seemed to work and was a good ‘Jerk Filter’ too…
So…you’re fat and you need love…what’s the problem?
I’ve been in the vicinity of a size 22-24 most of my life (very painful for my mother when I was born)and I gotta tell ya, I’ve had absolutely NO trouble getting men. Is it because as an overeater I excel at all things oral? Maybe…but it’s more about self-confidence.
BTW – to answer the questions I know are bubbling up…no, not all of my boyfriends/husbands were fat themselves(even lived with a male dancer…I managed to find the one who wasn’t gay. And no, I did NOT give it up on the first date (unless I just couldn’t help myself, which usually only happens with baked goods).
Marianne gives awesome advice here; if you’re actively looking, read it over twice…in fact, print it out and tape it to the full-length mirror you avoid like the plague.
And if I could add to that list: Find your passion (aside from a man with a job and all of his own teeth). Nothing is more attractive than someone who is actively engaged in life, and not desperate to fill the void with another person, which is something else many of us with facillating self-esteem do.
If you find something you’re passionate about politics,travel,movies,learning pig latin, whatever)and pursue it. Chances are you’ll find someone else who loves the same thing you do, and poof you have a new friend…and maybe even a new toe-painter. Good Luck!
I tried OK Cupid and didn’t have any luck, but I’m not sure I used it correctly (I had a number of people contacting me saying they weren’t sure how to use the site either) I had more fun on match.com. But didn’t find anybody long term. Match.com asks for you to describe your body type, and has a drop down menu. I chose “A few pounds overweight” because, well that was the best way to describe me. But my mother said that would discourage a lot of people, but I felt that if they were deterred by that (I mean I had photos too) then they weren’t for me.
I loved this thread, and I wanted to add some encouragement to Fat Daters everywhere, especially Fat Internet Daters.
I am a size 24-26 and I have dated A LOT. Mostly using the internet – sites like Nerve.com, OKCupid, etc. Long-term relationships, short-term relationships, casual sex.
I see a lot of my fellow fats and my fellow women (fat and thin and everything in between) carry a lot of worry about rejection into dating. “What if guys won’t like me because I’m too ______?” (Insert your own insecurity).
I’ve definitely experienced rejection for my weight. I’m sure a substantial number of people see my profile pictures and pass me right by, but sometimes it makes it through to the hot email flirting followed by drinks, followed by “Wow, you’re so awesome, but I don’t know how to tell my friends I’m into a fat girl, so can we agree to just be friends except I’d like to also secretly fuck you sometimes?” only they’re never that straightforward about it so it’s something I need to be on the lookout for.
The thing is, I’ve rejected a lot of guys on sight based on their profiles. I am super-picky. I don’t like bad spellers or smokers or men with weak chins. I like both short and tall men, but if you’re a certain kind of really tiny I pass you by because I can tell that it’s not going to feel sexy watching you try to climb Mount Jennifer, even if you do in fact want to. I also follow the divine @Sid’s rules – if it says right there in your profile that you’re the body police, you are DELETED. Sight and good grammar is all both parties in an internet dating situation have to go on.
If it’s okay for me to weed people out based on superficial characteristics, it’s okay for them to weed people out based on their own desires and hang-ups. Once you accept that, you can let a lot of worry go, right? “Oh no, I was too fat for that guy who can’t spell out the words “you” and “are” and whose only pictures of himself have his date badly photoshopped out of the frame. Ooops!”
You can’t make someone like you. You can’t control whether someone will reject you. There is nothing you can do or be that will make someone who isn’t into you magically become into you. Ignore all advertisements and Hollywood movies.
Since you can’t control whether the other person will like you, all you can do is really evaluate your own needs and desires and make sure the people you run across as dates are living up to those. Are you genuinely attracted to the guy? Is he kind and considerate? Is he smart enough for you? Can he hang with your friends? Does he introduce you to his friends? Is time spent with him as awesome as time spent with your friends? Is it working or are you trying to be the dating Tim Gunn and “make it work”? Does it feel like work?
Confidence and a sense of your own self-worth can only help you in dating. And if you’re not perfectly self-confident all the time? No one is – we’re all faking it until we make it. Which is a good way to build confidence.
Right around middle school when all the other girls started getting their first boyfriends, I tried to step on board with disastrous results, that kind of ended up leaving me very closed off until a few months ago.
I remember, if I ever told my mom about a boy I liked the response would be “YOU SHOULD LOSE WEIGHT SO HE’LL LIKE YOU” — And I’m sure everyone here knows how that can fuck up a 12 year old.
I got my first real boyfriend when I was 16, and it lasted about a month and he was an alright, actually kind of good-looking guy, who treated me kind of alright. We didn’t break up because I was fat, in the end, but because his father had died and he had a lot of stuff on his plate.
After that I ended up in a three-year relationship with a guy who meshed really well with me and we were pretty much in love for a good chunk of that. My failure to launch turned him off of me and we ended that a few months ago. And… off to the dating scene I’ve been.
And all this time, I’ve had memories of being at parties or out and about and realizing that there have been plenty of guys who have been into me. And in my dating endeavors I have learned that my body has never been a turn-off. If anything its my quickness to cruelty (that I have been dutifully working on).
But how the “Being Fat and Looking for a Man” thing has really affected me is a set of very strange rules and filters I’ve put on myself when searching around. Like “Is he saying he thinks I’m pretty because he really thinks it, or because he thinks I need to hear it?” or “Is he here because he assumes I am a desperate fat girl and go down on him because ‘fat chicks always give head’?” And for a while these little things become an almost endless nagging dialogue in my head, while I anaylize some poor saps every word, every bit of his body language and ever action he makes.
And all the while this is going on, I’m moderating myself to make sure I’m not enforcing any of those things. I’m not playing the sad-sack who wants to be showered in compliments, and I’m acting like an ‘11′ so he knows I’m not desperate.
My fear is not rejection so much, but a fear of manipulation and advantage because some guy who wants to get his dick wet may perceive me as an easy target to achieve that goal. And I’ve had casual hook-ups, but they’ve been on my terms. Its different when you’re actually looking for some kind of companionship and end up playing the fool.
I got rejected enough as a teenage girl to know, it really doesn’t sting that much, and though I don’t think I’ve ever been– the idea of actually being taken advantage of gives me a lot more anxiety. Even still, getting out and dating has given me a lot of confidence, because it has put me in a place where I know I can turn people down, and that I am actually a person who enthralls people and makes them want to impress me.
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