If you’ve been following his Twitter or Kevin Smith (yes, THAT Kevin Smith) various other online outlets, you know that he and Southwest Airlines have thrown down.
The quick and basic story?
Kevin Smith was seated and buckled in on a flight. Southwest decided his weight was a flight risk. And kicked him off the plane.
Here’s another link summing it up.
This is not news when it comes to the way Southwest treats fat customers. I mean, we’ve all followed the stories with horror and felt terrified when we walked down the concourse that this time WE are going to be the person asked to buy two seats or not fly.
This time, though, they’ve hit a celebrity with a hugely significant following. And I’m wondering if a) they didn’t recognize him or b) someone is the anti-fan. *snort*
Kevin Smith is not a person I’d identify as fat pos. He says some shit about his own body.
But you know? This is the perfect example of how you don’t have to have a perfect relationship with your body to stand up for your own rights as a consumer. Hell, forget about “as a consumer.” You don’t have to be perfect to stand up for your basic human dignity.
The two-seats issues gets all hot-buttony because no one wants to be uncomfortable on an airplane. Alas, airplanes are just damn uncomfortable at this point. We aren’t paying for comfort, we’re paying for transport. We aren’t paying for square footage (more like inchage) no matter how much legroom the various airlines crow about. The system is messed up, y’all.
But my biggest (see what I did there?) peeve about the two-seats issue is that even as people advocate for it, they don’t stop and think about the reality of implementing it. They are agitating for airline employees to discriminate based simply on what other people look like. Do I look extra fat today? Uh-oh! Did I wear black (it’s slimming or something, right?) and fake out the gate agent? There are not standards, there is no infrastructure in place to handle anything like enforcing an actual policy on the matter, and the goal isn’t making people comfortable anyway – it’s conciliatory action taken to mollify fat haters.
Kevin Smith’s fans have broken the Southwest blog – there’s an “apology” that followed the $100 voucher they offered him to try to make things go away. He doesn’t seem to think too much of their apology.
Here’s a link to a cached version of their post.
Their post doesn’t seem so much like an apology as an attempted-ass-covering to me. Particularly given Kevin Smith’s relation of the incident and the follow-up treatment.
I’m just saying, I’d sit next to Kevin Smith on a plane any day.
I’m not going to get into any sort of game predicting how this is going to turn out. I’m not hopeful that it will result in Southwest offering any sort of genuine apology to fat people in general even if they do scrounge around and manage to find words for Kevin Smith. There’s a lot of nasty being flung around about fat people flying even as there are awesome comments in support.
But it is so damn vindicating to see Southwest take actual flak for this, I cannot even tell you. They picked on the wrong person. And I hope they are smarting for it.
19 Comments
I was shocked, seriously shocked that out of all the people on the planet, I found you first on this. Like I said last night in my public twitter to @ThatKevinSmith:
“see, even if they don’t care if fat people don’t fly their airline, they’ve also alienated those of us who aren’t fat but think that treating paying customers like shit & shaming them is a lousy business model, no matter their weight.”
This is a larger issue than fat(no pun intended, seriously.) it’s that Southwest thinks that it’s okay to treat their customers like shit based on nothing more than what any given employee thinks they LOOK like. Kevin Smith said there were people on the plane bigger than him- why was he singled out? It’s because there’s no actual policy beyond “what staff think.” Well you know what? That’s not a way to run a railroad or an airline. It’s bullshit, and no one, fat or thin or in between with a lick of decency or sense would think that they’d want to participate in it.
Abso-damn-lutely. They can talk all they want about their policy but their policy truly is vague and insulting and based solely on how well or not people can judge body size.
This is why Guess Your Weight is a goddamn carnival shakedown – it’s not easy, it’s damn-near impossible for the regular person on the street to judge this stuff.
Reading comments, there are a lot of (anonymous) folks supporting Southwest. So I doubt they’ll run out of people to fly on their planes. But man, alienating a significant number of potential customers is just SO FREAKING STUPID.
And then Smith apparently said on his podcast “Well, I’m not THAT fat, and if I were I’d never leave the house.” Stockholm Syndrome! It’s what’s for dinner!
Like I said, he’s not a fat pos guy. But if you listen to the podcast, there’s a lot more to the story than the Southwest “apology” would have everyone know.
I wish that Kevin Smith were okay with his body – no matter what size it was. But I don’t think you have to be fat pos to deserve the support of the fat politics community. Further, I think it would be incredibly short-sighted of us as a community to not be aware and on top of this as a developing issue. You know?
In a perfect world, I’d love to see some of the other people that Southwest has screwed get together with Kevin Smith on this. I’d like to see fat activists talk to him about what it means for him to apologize for his body as though he has anything for which to be ashamed.
I’m a fairly active poster on his message board, and I do my best to FA the living hell out of it when the opportunity presents itself. Going into the podcast, I knew he wasn’t going to be an instant convert – I’m quite familiar with his body issues and his feelings about fat, etc. I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss him or disregard what he *has* said or the feelings he’s got because he’s not in a fat acceptance headspace. Pre-FA, I was the queen of “Well, I’m fat, but at least I’m not THAT fat”, and I don’t think I’m alone in that. Doesn’t make it right, it simply makes it an unfortunate result of a society that is fucked up about fat.
“I don’t think you have to be fat pos to deserve the support of the fat politics community.”
You don’t have to be fat pos to recognize that all people regardless of size are to be treated with basic respect as paying customers.
Oh, I agree—I absolutely support Kevin Smith in his anger at having been discriminated against because of his size.
But I’m also angry that he apparently thinks there’s some size larger than his at which it WOULD be okay to discriminate.
I’m not objecting to Kevin Smith’s discomfort with his own body. I’m objecting to his discomfort with the bodies of people larger than he (or at least, with his flip remarks to that effect).
I think his remarks about his feelings about his own body are just that – his feelings about his own body. In his podcast he mentions two other people he describes as bigger than him (another guy on the first plane and the woman next to him on the second), and it’s with a lot of empathy, not judgment. My impression is that he probably thinks that there are situations in which the second seat policy would be ok, but it should be applied fairly, kindly, and erring on the side of letting it go, which was not the case with either the situation he was in nor the situation he witnessed of the woman next to him.
I don’t know how to parse “I’m not THAT fat! And if I were, I wouldn’t leave the house” as anything other than prejudice against people larger than him.
Agree that he was supportive of the other people he encountered being targets of discrimination. My issue is that it seems he has an imaginary “too fat” person in his head against whom discrimination would be A-OK.
I was a victim of Southwest’s BS fat tax when going on vacation in July 2007. When I got to the guy at curbside checkin, he flirted with me and asked if I had ever flown Southwest before. Long story short, he checked me in, took my bags, then called up to the gate and sold me out to someone else. I can only imagine it went something like, ‘This is down at curbside checking. There are a couple of fat girls headed up your way and has a big ass. Charge her for an extra seat and they’ll probably be sitting together, so it’ll cover both of them’. I got upstairs and went to go get something to eat for the first time that day, only to come back and have my friend tell me they were calling me to the desk. I went to the desk and they informed me that they needed $100 of my money for the fat tax (my name for it). I cried the whole trip. Lucky me, I only had to go through the experience once but got to ‘pre-board’ and call attention to myself on all 4 flights that trip. Overall, the whole thing was one of the most humiliating, degrading experiences of my entire life. I’ll admit body positivity is still a work in progress for me, but I wish I had the public voice Kevin Smith has and the wherewithal to make a stink. I thank people for speaking out on this issue, even if they’re not the most body-positive like Kevin Smith.
apparently SWA tried to get another female passenger to buy a second seat which, Smith had already paid for… they were sharing a row. He by the window, she by the aisle. They took her aside and told her she might have to buy the second seat. (Which he’d already paid for.)
Cynically, I have to wonder if this is a cash grab on their part.
(Did you know that Air Canada and WestJet have to provide a second seat free of charge for domestic flights within Canada — some conditions apply.)
What I love about this idiot policies and the “pro-policy” people who always support them by claiming that fatties take up so much room on the airplane and leave absolutely NO room for anyone, is that these same people STILL bitch if you follow their rules!!
I went to a family reunion this past summer and was going alone, my husband couldn’t take off that much time from work. So freaking the hell out about flying alone and possibly getting singled out, I chose to buy two seats. I wasn’t flying Southwest, but when I emailed the airline I was flying, to get an idea of their policies, they basically told me they felt the same way as Southwest.
Not wanting to risk abject humiliation, I bought two seats. And you know what happened? I was treated like total crap on the plane because it was completely full and yet I didn’t have to be crushed by my fellow human beings (of ANY size, airplanes are not built for comfort) because I had two seats. I got to be somewhat comfortable, as comfy as possible given that I was still on an airplane, but how DARE I as a fatty get to be happy, how DARE I NOT have to be in pain, that’s just not FAIR!!! I got dirty looks, I got rude comments, I got all kinds of shit from playing by THEIR RULES!
You can’t win as a fat person right now, they won’t let you. It’s the exact same thing as life for African-Americans before the Civil Rights Movement. “They” (whoever is in power and hates you and wants to make your life hell) will find a way to punish you no matter what you do, you can do everything they tell you to exactly as they tell you and they’ll still find something wrong with you, PERIOD.
[...]My job here is to remind you that WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, IS PEOPLE. Fat People who are, quite possibly enjoying their flight experience EVEN LESS THAN YOU ARE.[...]
Endless Dream, that SUCKS. Brings the whole ‘humiliation’ element to the fore, really – there are some people who get off on berating others, and the OMGbesity Panic shit has given them the illusion that they’re something other than self-righteous assholes. Nothing other than disappearing will ever satisfy them, and I applaud you for not getting rageful (or weepy, as would have been my route).
As for the Kevin Smith issue, I think that one of the worst elements of this policy is the arbitrariness of who gets singled out. Smith PASSED the armrest test. And maybe he’s focusing a lot on that part of the story because of his self-hatred, but the repercussions for fellow fatties remain – even if we PASS THEIR TEST, we can get humiliated, treated badly and hauled off of planes because their staff don’t have a clear set of policies around this stuff.
The non-armrest criteria are unclear – when the WSJ has quotes from SW like “whether or not he can fit into the seats is a matter of interpretation,” it’s OBVIOUS that this isn’t a policy, it’s a guessing game. You’re relying on often fatphobic airline employees to make a judgement call, and the irregularities that go along with that are NOT fair to passengers.
It’s just a recipe for disaster when you have a fuzzy policy and poorly trained staff (letting someone on, then kicking them off when they PASS YOUR TEST is ridiculous (esp. when it’s due to another issue elsewhere on the plane, as seems to have been the case). Trying to grab double payment for the same seat, as happened on the later flight, is repulsive *and* poorly done.) My hope is that this whole thing will lead to clearer policies about HOW airlines need to deal with second-seat issues. First item in the new policy? Respect All Passengers.
I feel that since the advent of shows like “Biggest Loser” there is a sociatal attitude developing that fat people should be yelled at, treated roughly, and humiliated for their “own good.” Maybe they will “get with the program” lose wt. and conform to society’s narrow minded view of acceptable body size.
Often, this kind of hate starts in small ways that may seem trivial and not worth raising a fuss about. But, without awareness, hateful attitudes become accepted as the norm, and mild intolerence turns into hate. People become desensitized a little at a time if we don’t stop it before it becomes blatent.
Awareness must be put in place while the fat hating is still subtle. It IS worth making a fuss over how the airlines are singling out larger people. If we allow them to keep this behavior up it will become accepted as an okay way to treat fat human beings.
Twenty years ago I flew to Mexico on Mexicana Airlines. I asked for a seatbelt extender and the flight attendants drew attention and laughed at my request loudly enough to get the attention of many other passengers.
But, by today’s standards, that was benign!
I just wonder what it will be like for fat people to fly in another twenty years? Will we eventually not be allowed on planes? Will society find yet another way to imply that we don’t deserve to be seen in public?
I’m sick of being afraid of how the world will receive me. I’m tired of feeling like I must apologize for being alive because I am fat. I’m tired of the dread I feel everytime I go to a new place and the seats are too small or the minds too narrow to accept me as I am, in my big body.
And, if we tolerate it now, it sends the message that it’s okay to mistreat us.
We must move past our comfort zone and let the airlines, the media, and society in general know that we deserve kind respectful treatment like thin people take for granted.
@Diane: I so agree with what you said!
“I feel that since the advent of shows like “Biggest Loser” there is a sociatal attitude developing that fat people should be yelled at, treated roughly, and humiliated for their “own good.” Maybe they will “get with the program” lose wt. and conform to society’s narrow minded view of acceptable body size.”
There was an article on “Biggest Loser” the other day on Yahoo that examined how the contestants on this show are being hurt, going to the hospital, ending up with lasting problems from the show and (of course, duh) regaining some or all of their weight. But then of course the article completely changed it’s tune and went to the old standard, “but obesity is like so totally bad and unhealthy so like we really need to remember that when we look at this situation!” *headdeask*
We do need to demand to be treated fairly, no one is going to treat us equally just because it’s the right thing to do. If every oppressed group had waited for society to change instead of fighting for their rights, nothing in society would have ever changed, society wouldn’t have had a reason to change.
I agree with the two seat thing to a certain point. Like, only extreme obesity where the person literally takes up two seats. Not when people are a little tubby. That’s ridic. And, as much as I don’t like Kevin Smith, I’m glad that his fans are breaking the company’s blog.
Not sure if it is noted above-I skimmed the comments, apparently Mr Smith had bought 2 seats for a later flight but was trying to depart on a earlier flight.
Saddest thing here is the lack of guidance or procedure for the SW employees by management. Many of us watched the reality show when SWA allowed cameras to follow passengers and employees at 4 or 5 SW airports in the US. Many of those exchanges showed how untrained the staff were and how much individual staff were allowed to make and enforce “company policy”.
If a passenger has bought 2 seats on a later flight and tries to get on an earlier flight in one seat surely the company could follow the chain without the embarrassment of letting him board, sit and fasten only to mess with him in public. Story is the captain wanted Smith removed-seems unlikely unless he hated Dogma so much…
This issue, combined with the airline policy of selling more tickets for a flight than are actually on the plane, make for some incredibly stupid decisions. On a recent trip to Ireland, on more than half (literally, 5 out of
of our connecting flights had to have people “volunteer” to fly later (with “upgrades” like a free drink, on a later flight). And who did they approach to “volunteer”? You got it. The people who had bought 2 seats. I guess they figured that this way they could inconvenience one person, and get two seats out of the deal, without having to look like morons for overbooking (intentionally) in the first place.
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[...] familiar with these airline “policies”, but just in case, I’ll point you here, here, and (ESPECIALLY) here, just for a little background… go ahead, I’ll wait until you [...]
[...] Airlines thing by now, yes? (Just in case you haven’t, you can find out all about it here, here, here, or, well, a whole bunch of other places.) Basically, Kevin Smith got kicked off his flight [...]