If I were Queen (of the Fatosphere) for a day, I would have a couple of proclamations to make right off the bat. See, I’ve been thinking about what *I* think FA ought to be about, what *I* think its aims ought to be, with what it should concern itself. A handy-dandy rule book since people seem so hungry for them. (That pun? Fully intended.)
I’m under no delusion that I get to actually make these decisions for everyone, of course. But there was recently a lot of commentary on how I should take my responsibility seriously, after all, and, well, I’m responsive. Maybe not in the way people want me to be but no one got that specific.
Just in case I’m ever granted the power, it seems like a good idea to have a little something prepared. That’s why I’ve taken the time to write this down, in convenient ten commandment formatting. One hopes I do not have to do a satire disclaimer but…. I do not really think I am the boss of anyone else, much less god.
2 I am the Rotund, your fatty friend, who walked with you out of the land of self-hatred, out of the house of self-deprivation;
3 Do not have any other blogs before me.
4 You shall not make for yourself a blogroll, whether in the form of anything that is in livejournal, or that is on the dreamwidth, or that is in the yahoo groups.
5 You shall not bow down to them or favorite them; for I the Rotund, your favorite blog, am a jealous blog, punishing fat children for the iniquity of fat parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,
6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who buy Lessons From the Fatosphere and keep my fat acceptance commandments.
7 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of Fat Acceptance, for the Rotund will not acquit anyone who misuses the movement.
8 Remember to eat and enjoy it.
9 For 7 days shall you practice HAES (or not because health has no moral value).
10 But whatever day you like is a day of rest and if that day of rest includes exercise then that is okay, too; you shall not believe in the good fatty/bad fatty dichotomy.
11 For in social justice movements of all sorts, the Rotund found allies and became an ally; therefore the work of anti-oppression must be approached from an intersectional framework without a hierarchy of oppressions to derail our conversations.
12 Honor your father and your mother, for theirs are the genetics that have been passed on to you.
13 You shall not diet.
14 You shall not pursue weight loss surgery.
15 You shall not wear Spanx.
16 You shall not say crappy things about what your fat neighbor wears.
17 You shall not covet your neighbor’s thinness; you shall instead, accept your body and live your own damn life.
Now, this isn’t going to fly as a mission statement for the movement, obviously. But it’s where I’m starting. What’s important to YOU? What do you think is vital to the movement?
I don’t want to be part of a fat acceptance movement that doesn’t take other oppressions seriously. I don’t want to be part of a fat acceptance movement that is only for “healthy” or “acceptable” fatties. I don’t want to be part of a fat acceptance movement where we have to all disagree and play nice.
I want to be part of a fat acceptance movement that represents a variety of viewpoints, that has room for a variety of methods and tactics and approaches and concerns. I want radicals and not-so-radicals. I want thin people to be part of the movement. I want fat people to change themselves and thus change all of us.
What do you want?
40 Comments
Me, I like playing nice. The only thing that bothers me about some of the FA I read is the snark / meanness I’ve seen. Yeah yeah I get it, I can understand where it’s coming from, etc. etc. Still, I’d take a (potentially more “boring”) respectful dissection of someone else’s erroneous, offensive, or harmful remarks over clever and witty back-biting snark that throws out a lot of strong language. I don’t have a problem with strong language, I use it myself. I do think sometimes it can serve in lieu of better writing, though. That’s just my O, and you did ask.
I also want to say one of the awesomest things about your site and a few other FA sites is just how loudly they AREN’T anti-skinny. Thanks to FA – besides so very many benefits in my life – I’ve noticed how narrow the beauty standard is in our culture. I’ve become just as careful and kind toward skinny women (you know, the ones who aren’t “real” women?) as I have fat ones.
While I’m at it I want to tell you some of the OTHER benefits I’ve reaped in my less-than-one-year of FA – just so you know how helpful you and others have been. 1. I’m exercising more than ever, and doing things I like; 2. I’m dressing better; 3. I am slowly, slooooowwwly not feeling envious of my other, prettier, thinner, better dressed friends (this one is hard!), 4. I am speaking up more about FA or in an FA-manner, and 5. I am listening with even bigger, more open ears to the many other movements fighting oppression. FA has been wonderful for me.
“I don’t want to be part of a fat acceptance movement that doesn’t take other oppressions seriously. I don’t want to be part of a fat acceptance movement that is only for “healthy” or “acceptable” fatties.”
Yes, this.
I think relative politeness levels is one of those things on which there is wiggle room. I don’t snark. I very rarely name names. I’m not big on direct confrontation but I do think it is a useful tool sometimes. And one person’s direct confrontation is another person’s omg rude. So we’re going to run into conflict on that one.
Which I think is actually pretty healthy. If we’re comfortable, we’re missing something.
And thank you very much for sharing those benefits. I geek out reading that sort of thing so much, I cannot even tell you. Thank you.
“Politeness” I don’t know about (and I didn’t write that word). I prefer Real to Polite, myself. And I agree with what Meems wrote (below) about Niceness vs. Respect.
You wrote:
“I’m not big on direct confrontation but I do think it is a useful tool sometimes. ”
I’m a big fan of direct confrontation; in fact I try to use it as much as possible.
Another thing I wanted to add: one of the awesome things about most of the FA I’ve read is how well many of the blog-writers call out, in exquisite detail, some of the oppressive and wrong shit that’s out there. You know how something you read or see bothers you, but you’re new to FA and you can’t name what it is or put your finger on it? You ladies often can, and do, identify it, and in wonderful detail.
I think we’re intending different things by “direct confrontation” here, actually.
Which is another point – defining terms is always important.
“Niceness” is often a tool of social control used against marginalized people and used to suppress honest dialogue. “Niceness” is so often used against women, I’m honestly surprised to see people so invested in it in FA.
You might want to read these two blog posts about tone/niceness (if only you said it nicely, then people would listen)
http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/02/12/the-privilege-of-politeness/
http://zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com/429727.html
Thanks for the links, Julia! I’m working on not feeling “bad”/guilty whenever I point out that someone made a dick move and that thing they said was racist/sexist/ableist/etc. I’m secretly afraid that they’ll be like “GAH someone tell that fat Indian feminist to stfu! She is making us UNCOMFORTABLE and has been socialized to do the opposite! WHAT IS HER GD PROBLEM AHHHHH all Indians and fat people and feminists are SO RUDE.”
Of course, that kind of reaction is a) moderately unrealistic, and b) would actually be kind of hilarious if it actually happened.
OMG MARIANNE I WANT SPANX OK?! STOP OPPRESSING ME WITH YOUR ANTI-FAT REDUCTION POLICIES!!!!
Actually I use Spanx like garments mostly to keep the crotch of my tights where it should be. And for chub rub. My current Spanx type garments were deliberately purchased too large to provide actual fat smooshing.
THAT DOES IT YOU ARE OUT OF THE MOVEMENT!
Actually, I’m mostly opposed to the sales clerks at Torrid knocking on my fitting room door to ask me if I’ve tried them. TOOL OF THE BAD DEVIL. FAT SATAN LOATHES BODY “SMOOTHERS”.
Yeah I hate that too! The assumption that I want to have to smoosh my body to fit into most/all of my clothing is DUMBS. There is the occasional “yeah I want to change how my body looks in this one dress” vs “OMG MY BODY IS SO WRONG. No one must know my body has bumps!”
Fat rolls exist. It’s ok. ROLL WITH THEM
I use Spanx because I have, instead of a cute round tummy, a tummy with a spare tire. The Spanx gives me one lump instead of two. Oh, and also to reduce chub rub. Unfortunately they aren’t all that durable, so as a disposable good that’s way to damn expensive they are still A TOOL OF THE DEVIL ZOMG!
Just to keep me from posting several times, ditto on the “tone argument” linkage. When all we have to worry about is how snarky we’re being it will be a beautiful day, until then I think tone is the least of our worries.
Also ditto on a fatosphere that takes other oppressions seriously.
Now if we could only get away from health and beauty talk and recognize these concepts as tools of oppression I could agree with more of the fatosphere.
i too have a spare tire–I have a top stomach and a bottom stomach–but even in spanx i have a tire–i’ve decided to embrace it–much to the horror of some of my fat friends
I love Spanx for those “special” dresses that are too slinky to wear without. Actually, I lie. I’m too cheap for Spanx – the same designer has a lower end Target line. The footless tights are divine at a third of the Torrid price and the nylons make my legs shine just a little.
I don’t use them to hide, so much as enhance. A girl needs a confidence lift from her under garments in some situations.
OK SRS BSNS COMMENT NAO
Right then.
I want a FA movement that embraces multiple forms of identity and intersectionality in general. I want my FA to think about how fat affects different bodies in different ways, and how fat based oppression functions in different ways based in part on identity.
I want a FA movement that doesn’t talk in coded language about good fatties and bad fatties. FA means I don’t have to eat “healthy” food, do HAES, or exercise if I don’t want to. I want a FA movement whose faces are more than not very fat white middle class cisgendered straight women. I want death fat to represent!
I want to have more conversations with fat people who are like me, and not at all like me. I want to help create spaces for fat people with disabilities, fat working class people, and fat allies to talk.
I WANT A LOT OF FAT STUFF OK?
Am I missing the first commandment, or is there really not one up there?
Actually, I ganked the commandments from an online Bible – those are the verse numbers.
“I am the Rotund, your fatty friend, who walked with you out of the land of self-hatred, out of the house of self-deprivation”
Love this!
Can we wear rip-off versions of spanx that don’t carry the brand-name, or are all figure controlling garments banned?
Honestly, I’m not opposed to Spanx (though more for the chub rub prevention/helping belts stay in place), nor am I opposed to certain kinds of plastic surgery – though WLS makes me uncomfortable.
Niceness and respect are different things. Disagreement is going to happen and is important, but personal attacks, naming names, and excessive snark aren’t really helpful.
Beyond that? I dunno…
I’m not opposed to them, either.
I am opposed to the implication that I must wear them under certain things or the assumption that something I try on the dressing room will look good at home if you can just imagine that I’ll be wearing Spanx.
I’m not delusional enough to think they make look like I’m suddenly 100 pounds lighter. But sometimes I look and feel a little better in an outfit if there’s some smoothing going on.
I’m with shyvixen and really appreciated your line about walking “with you out of the land of self-hatred, out of the house of self-deprivation”
But I gotta say that your commandment about
You shall not say crappy things about what your fat neighbor wears
did get a laugh out of me.
Also, for what it’s worth, here’s my 2 cents on the nice thing: I think nice is highly under rated. I like nice people. I get tired of mean people. As long as the “nice” is sincere vrs having to suck it up because you think you’re supposed to. Powerful nice because you want to be is awesome in my book.
This weekend, I was wishing that you and the SP women really did have the power to kick people out of the FA movement.
“You shall not covet your neighbor’s thinness; you shall instead, accept your body and live your own damn life.”
This one is my fave.
I might add one about not bearing false witness against yourself by proclaiming your lack of beauty, as the all-seeing Rotund sees your beauty and it cannot be denied.
Also maybe something about not holding onto a false idol of thinness and do all things that you are postponing until you are thin, now. Like, right now.
Thou shalt not claim that hating fat people is the last acceptable prejudice, lest you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that all other prejudices have been rendered unacceptable in all circumstance in all the world. And you can’t. So don’t.
Oh, Marianne, you make me want to be a polytheist.
Brilliant. I love your commandments. I honestly have nothing to add, just wanted to show my appreciation.
“Thou shalt not claim that hating fat people is the last acceptable prejudice, lest you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that all other prejudices have been rendered unacceptable in all circumstance in all the world. And you can’t. So don’t.”
Absolutely. I like this one.
Just a few from me to add to your fine commandments.
*Thou shalt always remember that fat acceptance is about respect for thyself and others, even when thy fellow fats are different to you.
*Thou shalt learn how to move on. Guard thy own territory fiercely, but encroach not on another’s territory unless in respect or defense of thyself.
*Thou shalt not gloat about thy level of education, thou shall only be represented as a total prat if thou does.
I’m not clever enough a writer to try to put mine in commandment form, but on top of the good fatty/bad fatty dichotomy the one thing I’d like out of FA is The Beauty Thing. There’s so much emphasis on so many FA sites about how “you’re beautiful no matter what your size”. To me that completely misses the boat. It accepts the idea that one is only ok if one is decorative or fuckable. Screw that.
I’m thrilled for those who find a way to take fat out of their definition of beauty, but unless you turn the word into something that means “human being worthy of love and respect” (for which we already have several perfectly good words, like, “human” and “person”) then not everyone is beautiful. Many of us do NOT have “such a pretty face” and basing body acceptance on the idea that some fat people are also beautiful leaves a lot of us outside looking in.
I really agree w/ Cassie regarding ‘The Beauty Thing.’
I actually like your rules.
The only one I would add is that the Rotund shall reprimand her wayward fat children gently, as with the flapping of a wet noodle.
I am so sorry to double comment, but I just read Cassi’s thing:
“Beauty” is often a concept that gets my hackles up. I’m actively trying to be less vain, less looks-centered, and more centered on my skills and personality. Why? I’m getting older. You can only trade on “Beauty” for so long before it starts to seem hollow. I’d rather find a way out of valuing myself for my looks.
So this is more Christian Bible:
When you are ready, you shall go forth into the world and spread the good news of FA to the ignorant, that they may also find the land of self-love and reasonable eating.
This is the one I’m working on at the moment.
Also, a moment of hero-worship: TR, you inspired me to jog. I’ve never been able to “run” for a full mile before in my life, and after about 6 months of gym-going, I could. Now I’m working on bringing it up to 2 miles. Holy crap. I don’t have to be thin to be healthy!
I want a movement wherein someone tells me I have a pretty face, that is all it means, not that I have a pretty face but ZOMG!! TEH FAT!! IT BURNS!!! Ok, maybe that one is more for the people not in the movement.
I want a movement wherein my becoming less fat is totally acceptable. I was decried as being a bad fattie last night, not because I of the morality of health and food (which there is none) but because for personal health reasons, I am actively becoming less fat- I am not starving myself to do this, I am not hurting myself to do this, I am doing this as I happen to have a history of health problems that ARE related in small part to my weight, I also have a lot of health problems that are not related to my weight, and understand that my weight has no bearing on them.
I’m with you 99% of the way.
I think you may have created a meme. Or at least I’m going to have to snag this. Great idea.
Peace,
Shannon
I really like Spanx as well… The distribution of fat on my body is only physically uncomfortable in a couple places, chub rub in the thighs and belly button area in pants (unless I want to belt under the belleh) and Spanx just make me more comfy.
I want a FA movement with a singular goal of stopping fat prejudice.
I think that message gets lost amidst a slew of question that segment us. Are we anti-diet or diet-accepting? Are we pro-exercise? Are only for healthy fatties? Are we a woman’s movement? Are we for kinda fatties or really fatties? Are we anti-eating disorder?
I have my opinions. A personal answer to every one of those questions. And I’m desperately searching for people like myself. A community where I can fit in.
But I’ve come to the conclusion that finding someone that agrees with me on all those points is less important than protecting my rights.
To be fat is human. It isn’t a behavior; it’s a physical attribute. The movement should strive to protect all of us. Regardless of our differing viewpoints.
That is my wish for the FA movement. A leader or a group that can cut through the drama and focus on the ONE thing that binds us all together. We don’t want to be discriminated against because we’re fat.
I want a movement that I don’t feel the pressure to live up to an impossible standard. I want a movement that says that acceptance is a process and a long and arduous one at that so when my best friend calls me up worrying about accepting her body and loving her body and the fear that she’ll never get there, I can tell her that’s ok and she’ll believe me. Because she is so scared that she’ll never be able to love herself and her body enough to avoid giving her daughter body issues.
I would like to see a movement that acknowledges those of us who are fat and NOT healthy. Sometimes it feels like those of us who are fat but ill are shuffled off to the side so as not to undermine the message of Fit & Fat. I’d like to hear some voices from people who are fat and dealing with health issues in a HAES positive way.
I can barely walk more that a few feet without getting winded. I use a walker most of the time. Healthy movement is a goal I only achieve one every few days. Tonight I am going to my third “drum circle/ spirit dance” I have fun there, I sit and pound on a drum while a room full of dancers dance. The last time I got out and about was Tuesday when I walked home from an appointment. I too feel cast off to the side when i hear people talk about healthy movement every day. I’d like to hear more from fat folks with serious health conditions too, yet I bet they feel a lot like I do, ashamed that I am not being a good enough fattie. However, how can I embrace someone telling me that i am okay when i don’t believe it myself. Tough stuff for me.
*raises hand*
I’ll join you at the table
I am officially “disabled,” although some days I do just fine (other days, I can’t get out of bed.) I have an invisible disability (Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome/fibromyalgia/asthma), so I look “perfectly healthy” even though I may be in crippling pain or unable to breathe.
I struggle with feeling like a part of the fat-acceptance movement sometimes, because while I support HAES and my amazing fat friends, and I’m down with my own fat body (although I wish it could hurt a bit less), I also have to be aware that gaining weight is going to cause additional joint/ligament damage (because my joints are fragile and my connective tissue is screwed-up), and so I have to admit that I’d rather maintain my current weight or lose a small amount of weight rather than gaining. This feels a bit like a betrayal, but it’s not meant as a value judgment to anyone else, merely that I’m already struggling with enough health stuff, I don’t want to further decrease my mobility
On the plus side, I love my fat body, I love and appreciate the bodies of the amazing women around me, I do what I can in terms of self-care and staying healthy, I educate other people when they say ignorant things about fat people (or any other group, really) in my presence — I do feel like I’m doing some good on a day-to-day basis, and that makes me happy
*empathy*
– A <3
Kelly said: “Still, I’d take a (potentially more “boring”) respectful dissection of someone else’s erroneous, offensive, or harmful remarks over clever and witty back-biting snark” and I agree.
Please don’t throw links condemning “niceness” as a tool of oppression at me – I have read them, and I respectfully disagree. I believe in nonviolent communication, assertiveness, and respect. This is something I strive for in myself and admire in others: it takes more time, more effort, to attempt to understand where another person is coming from and disagree with their statements without attacking them as a person, but so much needless, unproductive flame-wars would be prevented if people would approach disagreements this way – at first. There are always those people who won’t participate in a rational discussion, but those who *are* willing to do so end up at each other’s throats too often.
Damn, when I was younger, I loved a good fight and prided myself on a witty insult, but at this point I feel like I’ve been on every side of every debate, and I’m just tired of seeing shallow, stereotyped personal attacks thrown back and forth and no one learning anything. Yeah, I don’t have an obligation to teach you, and you don’t have an obligation to teach me, but the alternatives of ignoring each other or shouting each other down just aren’t appealing anymore. I’ll go on trying to teach, and learn from, the people who disagree with me, and I still think the FA movement (and society in general) would benefit from more respect.
I am also wondering about your Spanx comment.
My mother gave me a long lecture about foundation garments and her generation and nan’s generation who freed us all from boning and lacing up our underwear. I took her comment and tried to find a feminist who could actually explain what she was talking about properly but couldn’t find any.
For me its either spanx or wearing pants or “one hour skirts” because or the thigh rub issue.
If you haven’t already explained your take on the issue from both a fat person who is deep in the fat acceptance movement and a feminist could you enlighten as all.