So, last night, I was trekking to various stores in search of a jacket. I had deposited the second part of my advance and was prepared to spend a little bit of money on myself as a reward for finishing edits on the book. I went to Lane Bryant because they are, for me, old reliable when it comes to finding something to wear. I worked at this particular location for three years and have, in the past 4 or 5 years, noticed a serious decline in customer service on most visits (that has nothing to do with me quitting – I worked there, like, 9 years ago).
This time, I was greeted (which is supposed to be a hard and fast rule but almost never actually happens) and the sales associate asked me if I was looking for anything in particular. I told her I was looking for jackets and she made a face. Then she took me to the clearance wall and showed me the cardigans that were on sale.
Now, cardigans are AWESOME. I totally love them. But they are different creatures entirely from jackets. Plus, we’d walked right past what looked like a leather bomber jacket. I asked her, “What about that one?”
And she burst out laughing.
She explained that she was laughing about the price, then walked over and looked at the price tag and started laughing again. “Maybe,” she said to me, “if money’s no object for you.”
Now I was curious. I checked the tag myself. $129.99. Not a small price tag and, when I worked at Lane Bryant, a price that would have put the jacket beyond the realm of the possible for me as well. Even WITH the employee discount and special occassions where we got an extra 15% off on top. Working in retail is hard and demanding and you don’t get paid nearly well enough to put up with everything thrown at you.
So, I tried it on. It fit like a bomber jacket fits. I was feeling kind of pleased as I looked into the mirror. And then she and other clerk burst out laughing again. “What?” I said. “Well, you know, if that’s your STYLE!” the second clerk said. And they laughed some more.
The jacket itself was a pleather bomber style jacket. It was totally plain. I have no idea if they just hated it (for some inexplicable reason) enough to talk everyone who liked it out of buying it or if they didn’t think I had the money (with my violet hair and orange tights) or if they just thought I looked that ridiculous (in a black t-shirt and jean skirt?). I returned the jacket to its hanger and left the store, totally baffled.
It was only later, when I was standing in the Avenue, that I started to get really kind of angry. I’m used to being laughed at, after all. I generally do dress with a certain degree of humor. But, FFS, don’t these people have sales goals? Have things at brick and mortar stores really gotten so bad that clerks are now openly mocking shoppers when said shoppers look a little different and not totally on-trend?
I think part of my delayed reaction was, frankly, caused by a lifetime of having it ground into my head that fat people don’t deserve nice clothes. OF COURSE I’d be laughed at for desiring an item that was the height of fashion in middle and high school (and I FIERCELY craved a bomber jacket for all of thsoe years) – fat people don’t deserve fashion. OF COURSE I’d be laughed at because I’ve always been the fatty, the funny-looking one, the weird girl with glasses.
Lane Bryant is the last place I expected to experience that feeling, lemme tell you. It was actually when I was working at Lane Bryant that my nascent self-acceptance blossomed under the guidance of my size 4 manager. But this isn’t the first time that I’ve felt way more judged by fat women than anyone else.
I know I’ve mentioned the way fat people often police themselves. “No,” we remind ourselves, “I’m fat so I am not allowed to wear bright colors/stand in the middle of the elevator/have a second helping of dessert/fall in love/whatever.” The accompanying ugliness to that is the way fat people police EACH OTHER.
“Oh, at least I’m not THAT kind of fat person.” The little voice sounds smug. “I’m thinner than THAT fat person.” The little voice knows exactly where we fall on the fat hierarchy of the room we’ve just entered. “I may be fat but at least I’ve got better boobs than HER.” The little voice reaches for the low-cut top and works the cleavage for all its worth.
Thing is, there’s nothing wrong with being “that” kind of fat person – which is code for any fat person who doesn’t meet our personal standards of fashion and health and whatever other criteria we’ve chosen for acceptability. Fat acceptance is just as much for that fat person as it is for the plus size models. There’s nothing wrong with being the fattest person in the room. Fat acceptance is for fat people of every size. There’s nothing wrong with being a shape other than an hourglass; there’s nothing wrong with being small-chested. Fat acceptance is not just for the fat chicks with “curves.”
Fat acceptance is, as much as it pains me to admit it right now, even for the bitches who laughed at me and talked me out of spending my money at their store because maybe they need it most of all.
I went to the Avenue and found a kick-ass leather coat (check out the Metro leather coat, and it comes in a bronze color I might have to acquire at some point, too…) for just a smidge more, and a variety of other things. Then I opened an Avenue credit card, saved a ton of money on my purchase, and resolved to let the regional manager for that Lane Bryant know that, while my money may be stored in a lime green and pink duct tape wallet, it spends just as well as the money of truly trendy fatties.
28 Comments
Yes every group has a hierarchy in the FA community smaller bbws are often shunned because it is felt that they have it better, in the general public the larger bbws are scrutinized in ways you mentioned in this post.” I may be the same size as you but I have a better shape” type nitpicking . but thats just what us women fat or thin do anyway. we all want to be head of the pack. It is true though that it is very frustrating to some bbw’s when you hear phrases like ” she big in all the right places” from thin people when describing OTHER bbw’s who are just as big in the waist but have bigger boobs, hips or butt my sister says it makes her feel like damb I cant even get being fat right.
Screw those girls at the Lane Bryant. Sorry, but their job is to advise you on clothes to buy (ie. in terms of fitting). Oh, and I always wanted a bomber jacket too!
I’m very surprised that Lane Bryant is allowing its sales associates to talk (or laugh) potential customers out of a sale, especially of an expensive item. I suspect LB would like to know what these SAs are up to so they can give them proper training. (Although based on what you say about the decline in customer service, maybe not.)
This is one of the main reasons I don’t shop the LB stores. Getting someone to greet you and ask what you’re looking for is next to impossible, and when they do deign to help you, it’s like they’re doing you the biggest favor in the world (because talking to their coworkers is just so much more important than helping customers, ya know?). It took me a long time to accept that I deserved good service when I shopped, and then to go to a store and be treated like my money isn’t good enough for them, well, fine, I’ll take my money where it will be appreciated and I’ll be treated with respect, thank you very much. This kind of thing has happened to me in every LB store I’ve ever been in. Maybe it’s because they see me as an old woman (I do have some gray in my hair, and I am 54), but I don’t dress like my grandmother would have, and I do want some cute, trendy clothing too.
I’m getting really tired of the lack of selection of clothing that will fit me (try to find something cute in a 4 to 5X that doesn’t cost a couple of days’ pay), so I think I’m going to start creating my own patterns off clothing items I already have and like and make my own. Then I don’t have to deal with rude SAs at all (I’ve never had that kind of problem in the fabrick stores).
Wow–that is just WEIRD in its total inappropriateness. I’m glad you’re going to mention it to the store manager, because I’d like to think the employees in question could be stopped from doing the same thing to future customers. I probably would have run out of the store and cried if it had been me in your shoes there.
Oh my. I’d be tempted to go back with wearing the new coat and carrying Avenue bags, and, you know, do the Pretty Woman thing. But a letter to the regional manager … or posting the address with the story so locals know which store to avoid … isn’t a bad idea either.
Vesta – I’ve never had that sort of experience at Catherine’s or Casual Male, which are the chains where I can find things in 4x or 5x. (Yes, CM is a men’s store, which means they make sweatpants with little extras like pockets and full-length legs.)
One blogger has some notes on sewing a simple wardrobe of slacks, skirts, shells, and jackets for work here. While a lot of what she makes could be purchased cheaper at stores, a) she’s smaller than we are, which affects the math and availablilty, and b) she’s learned basic pattern drafting, so she can get a better fit. It might be worth looking at if you’re interested.
As a girl of age to work in such entry-level jobs, I must confess, I am not in the least bit surprised at the bitches they hire anymore.
There’s simply no excuse for the way you were treated in that store. I’ve worked retail (books and clothes), and if there’s one thing you need to learn pronto when you get that job it’s that the customer may or may not be right, but (s)he damn well MUST be treated with respect.
Just as you cannot tell how healthy a person is by looking at her, you cannot tell how wealthy she is, either, and you don’t want to run a person who might drop a lot of bucks on your merchandise out because you don’t think much of her sense of style.
Besides, it’s a truism in retail that if someone has a good experience, she will tell about three to five other people about it…but if she has a bad one, she’ll tell at least ten. So that’s a couple potential extra sales versus about a dozen people who won’t want to give you money. Or in this case, several dozen or more.
I don’t have a Lane Bryant in my town, but I have to say the Avenue here is terrific for customer service. Every time I’ve been in, they’ve been friendly, helpful, and genuinely nice. I’ve seen how they are with other customers, too, and I’ve never seen one of them behave with anything less than absolute professionalism and courtesy, no matter what the size, taste, or attitude of the customer.
And yes, I do think a letter to the regional manager (perhaps with a copy cc’d to the store manager) is in order. Those girls were making rude assumptions, entirely failed to be helpful, and treated a customer so badly that she left without an expensive item she really wanted and decided to spend that money somewhere else. Not only do the sales associates need a serious wake up call, so does the manager for allowing the staff to behave that way.
Definitely report them. That’s absolutely ridiculous behavior. Judging by the reactions of my manager and my friends’ managers when we worked at LB last year, their DM is going to BLOW UP over this.
@ living400lbs – funny you should mention Catherine’s having better customer service; Catherine’s, Fashion Bug, Lane Bryant, and Petite Sophisticate are all owned by the same company, Charming Shoppes. I’m not sure where there’s such a discrepancy in quality of service between them.
The LB customer service seems to vary greatly from store to store. For example, the one at the mall has an awesome manager and nice associates who will be honest with you but still help you find something you want to buy, and the strip-mall one closer to my house is staffed with utter bitches. Except one girl, who is totally nice, and will therefore likely not last long. However, the women at the Catherine’s next door are super sweet. The strip-mall slightly farther away is ok, but not great. I’ve had pretty decent experiences at all the Avenues in the area….one or two slightly preoccupied with chatting with co-workers, but they don’t act all put out if you ask for help.
Well, on the upside, the Metro jacket is cuter than the LB bomber jacket anyway. (Sez me.) But seriously, I don’t see what’s laughable about the bomber. The hell?
Regarding Twistie’s point about people sharing positive and negative experiences, add in that, ahem, everybody and their grandma has a blog these days. Which means big chain stores should really be cracking down on shitty customer service from the top, because one jackass employee in Orlando can taint the entire brand.
As it happens, I was at both an LB and an Avenue yesterday and had pretty much the opposite experience — I was greeted and offered help by two LB employees, but I had to flag down an Avenue one to get a dressing room, and she acted rather put out by it. If I’d read this post before going shopping, I probably would have started at Avenue and been more enthusiastic about shopping there — even though you’re a zillion miles away, and in my own neck of the woods, LB actually has better customer service. (Or at least it did yesterday.) Not good.
The last time I shopped at LB one of the women working expressed surprise that I liked a certain cut of trousers. When I asked her why, she told me I had big thighs. I wasn’t especially offended, just baffled that she lived in a world where her behavior made sense. I don’t know if she was trying to commiserate, or what.
Sounds like they all need some serious help with their manners.
Avenue’s employees always treat me as if I were going to steal from their store. It might have something to do with the only Avenue being in a very affluent part of town where most of the clientelle dresses much better than I do. The Lane Bryant folks are always helpful, but frequently disappointed that I do nothing more than make a bee line for the clearance rack. Catherine’s folks ignore me completely, but Fashion Bug’s employees will kill themselves trying to find something I can wear (something without an empire waist, which they never carry anymore, *sigh*).
I do believe that LB’s people are on commission, it seems odd to me that they’d actively discourage a sale. Not only is that terrible customer service, it just runs counter to basic survival. Who the heck doesn’t want more money?
Twistie, you are right on all counts. I was prepared to Take Myself Shopping and, on a slow Wednesday night, that could have been a very good thing for their store. (There’s just something appropriate about spending advance money for the book on fat things. *grin*)
It was also the strangest retail experience I’ve had in a very long time – because the hell? It was a bomber jacket, not a clown suit! And, yeah, I have violet bangs and I had orange tights but, hell, even if they thought that was weird, it’s coming up on Halloween.
When I worked retail, it was drilled into me that you always treated every customer as if s/he were going to drop $1000 in your store. Every now and then, that actually happened, and it was never the people you’d have pegged as big spenders.
men_in_full mentioned elsewhere that the people who sell men’s suits work on commission and so a suit shopping experience is VERY different for dudes. Shame LB is still paying its clerks the same measly mall paycheck that it always has.
And Kate, yes, the Metro jacket is MILES cuter. I really am still kind of obsessing over the bronze. If it turns up on sale online, I might have to splurge. Then I’d have TWO JACKETS!
AND I am absolutely mentioning that I blog in my letter. Because YEAH.
I had a similar expereience.. at Saks Fifth Avenue at Fashion Valley in San Diego. When I was trying on stuff in the fitting room, I heard the sales associate ask the girl who was helping me why she was still helping the ’sea cow”.
I felt for about two hours I kind of deserved it for shopping on the designer floor at Saks. But then i went back and complained to the managers.
I totally get what you mean by the fat hierarchy thing and I have been totally guilty of it.
Stinking thinking and long standing self-loathing are hard thought patterns to break.
Thank you for making me think
Milla
I’m not condoning this but MAYBE. Maybe it’s possible they were laughing for a different reason. Still inappropriate yes, but consider this.
It was pleather. PLEATHER. As in Plastic Leather. For $129. Yeah that would be a really stupid waste of money! Maybe they weren’t making fun of you, they were making fun of the piece of total crap their store was trying to sell for a ridiculous price and perhaps they thought you were going to be the big sucker who plunked down way too much cash for something that would still be a piece of crap at half that price.
I’m really glad you didn’t get it and you got ACTUAL LEATHER. If you want to mess with their minds, wear your gorgeous new coat, go back and thank them for pointing out what trash their store sells and how bad you feel for them having to work every day selling garbage.
See, I don’t buy that. Well, literally, but you know what I mean. And, frankly, even if they thought I was the biggest sucker in the world, they should absolutely 100% never have mocked me to my face for it. You just don’t do that shit when you’re trying to sell clothes. Plus, I have never owned a leather coat. I don’t have a moral objection to leather but I’m actually a fan of high quality (in as much as anything at Lane Bryant is high quality) pleather. And good pleather can cost just as much as shitty leather. Lane Bryant has sold much crappier stuff for much higher prices without its sales people insulting anyone over it.
And if they have such a problem with pleather, I suggest, rather than insulting their customers, they actually speak to that instead of snickering.
TR, I’m so sorry about this experience. There could have been many reasons for the laughing but resonable human behavior would dictate that they would say to you, “We’re not laughing at you, but at the pleather. There’s a much nicer jacket at Avenue.”
Sometimes I fantasize about working at a plus size store, where I’d be the awesome fat-positive customer service person who’d find great clothes for people and make them see that just maybe they can be beautiful AND fat, and I would never tell them that some article of clothing was “slimming.” I’d say, “wow, those pants fit you just right,” or “gee, that color suits you perfectly!” Or else I’d say, “I don’t love it; how about we try something different?”
Of course, it wouldn’t make up for the shittiness of working retail, and I don’t really want to be a sales associate, but it’s a little dream I have.
I had a similar horrible experience at Avenue not too long ago. I went in for a pair of jeans I had been salivating over, and they were on sale! They had my size! Life was good! Then the clerk gave me total attitude about my size. I left in tears (and if you knew me, you’d know that it takes a lot to reduce me to tears in public). On my way out, another clerk made eye contact and asked me if I was ok. I asked her who her manager was, and it was the Attitude Queen. No point in complaining. It so happens there is another Avenue not far from me, and I went there to buy my sale jeans. I told the story to the darling clerk at Avenue #2, and she was rigteously indignant on my behalf. As I continued to shop in her store, she came back to me with the name and contact information for the District Manager and urged me to follow up. I must say, District Manager was awesome about the whole thing, and I have been shopping at Avenue #2 ever since. I know I am lucky to have the option to go to a different store. I guess my point is, definitely let the higher ups know about your experience. Any store in any chain can have bad apples–in today’s economy, they are incrediby stupid if they let even one customer get away feeling bad and spreading the word about them!
Eve, I know someone who works part time in a plus sized store and she does exactly that! She doesn’t make much money but she finds it very gratifying work helping women find flattering clothes and feel good about themselves and their bodies.
And TR, I am just baffled at the behavior of the LB SAs. I went to the LB website and found that jacket and don’t see why it would be such a joke either. They behaved really badly. I’m glad you are writing to management – they need to know about this stuff!
Regarding Saved from CRAP!!!’s comment, regardless of their thoughts on pleather, they must know that some people won’t wear leather because of moral objections. It makes me happy though that they talked you out of a sale, because I had thought the economy was bad. Apparently, I was wrong because stores are doing so well that they no longer need to keep customers!
I’ve usually had decent experiences at Lane Bryant and Avenue, but when I go I often buy a lot so they’re probably happy when they see me coming! (Though there could be some of the fat hierarchy issue too since I seem to look like a smaller size than I actually am.)
I personally would think that a person with an “alternative” look would be more likely to spend – they obviously put consideration into what they wear, less conventional clothing is often pricier than the conservative stuff, and a lot of people I know who have dyed hair/piercings/tatoos work in computer or design fields that pay pretty well.
How horrifying. You would think that we’d have a few ports in the storm. I do hope you have the time to follow up with a letter to corporate, cc’ing the store manager. Make sure to follow up with a description of the store associates who treated you so poorly so they can have “corrective training” (a.k.a. have their asses handed to them).
I blame the sudden surge in snotty salespeople on the fact retail as a career field sucks.
Once upon a time, being a salesperson was glamorous, well-paying, and (depending on the store) prestigious. The employee discount was just icing on the cake because making $10 an hour was the standard, not the exception. You didn’t really care if you got to be a manager because you were doing well enough to not need the pay raise, and you loved your job.
Then the Department Store Experience died, and stores were overrun by broke teenagers, broke college students, and rude people who lacked the skill to work anywhere else. Why pay these people $10-15 an hour? They don’t need that much.
I’d be willing to bet that half the people that work in clothing stores now have no interest in moving up beyond Store Manager. “They’re just doing this until something better(paying) comes along,” after all. And the people who become Management probably don’t want to be Buyers, so they have to pillage one from another company.
It just all leads back to my belief that so few people have any sort of passion for their jobs, myself included.
I love LB, but they are not the be-all and end-all of fat fashion. I would think they and other stores that cater to a certain percentage of customers who already have limited clothing choices as it is would not be so snobby. But then again, superficiality comes in all shapes and sizes.
I can’t believe this. I stopped working at LB about three months ago and our manager woul dbe up our asses over this. How dare they? Even on my worst days I would never have treated a customer that way.
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