The thing that kills me about the constant yelling of “It’s thermodynamics, stupid!” is that proponents of this rarely seem to pay any attention to the numerous thin people who say, “Um, wait, I eat whatever I want, all the time, and never gain any weight.”
I actually saw this justified, recently, by someone who told the thin woman that she must just be more active than she realized, as in she must fidget and move around a lot.
*headdesk*
The absolute conviction of the people to support “calories in/calories out” as the be-all, end-all of weight loss baffles me. It’s as if they view the body as a pure math equation.
Except, the body is infinitely more complex than that. All of nature is, which is why we have all sorts of special theories and quantum physics and, hell, imaginary numbers. It’s why constants are used in math even when they aren’t understood. Thermodynamics is awesome. And I think it is a good starting point for a lot of discussions about how the body uses fuel.
But expecting it to work like clockwork in every single body in exactly the same fashion when it doesn’t even work that way in nature?
How does that make any sense? We don’t understand everything about the body. It’s okay to admit that, be baffled by it, and do our best to work with it.
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I actually saw this justified, recently, by someone who told the thin woman that she must just be more active than she realized, as in she must fidget and move around a lot.
Oh, okay then. If I just fidget more, I’m sure I’ll drop 70 lbs. and be “normal.”
I know, right? WHY DIDN”T THEY TELL US THIS BEFORE?
*headdesk*
Hey, don’t you know that being ADHD is a cure for teh Fatz? It makes you fidget more! And they give you speed! And of course everyone knows that as long as it’s LEGAL speed, it’s perfectly safe and OK, with no undesirable side effects (since, after all, weight loss is a DESIRABLE side effect).
So I wonder why my husband isn’t thin as a rail from this?
Oh YEAH: Because people are DIFFERENT.
“But expecting it to work like clockwork in every single body in exactly the same fashion when it doesn’t even work that way in nature?”
I am a little confused by this statement, do you think that our bodies are violating the laws of thermodynamics??
They aren’t. I bet if you put could somehow measure exactly how much energy we were generating, losing in the form of exhaled and exuded what not, and compared it very very carefully to exactly what we were taking in you would see that we are strictly complying with the law of conservation of energy.
I don’t know of any exceptions to the laws of thermodynamics (I am a scientist, but a biologist/chemist not a physicst) Special theories in physics like quantum generally apply at levels much much smaller than those governing the chemical reactions that form the basis of our metabolism.
None of this is to say that calories in/ calories out is a reasonable thing to harrange fat people with. There are lots of reasons for that non scientifically of course, but there are just as many problems with the statement from a scientific point of view.
Calories out is going to be way different for different people, but people who blather on about this often forget that adjusting calories in will cause a change in calories out, potentially a dramatic one, so you can’t view it as a simple equation. It is more like an equation with calories in (x, as that would be a number) on one side with a huge muli-termed many variabled thing on the other side of the sign, with one of those variables being X. and we are a long way from being able to understand that equation.
And of course there are plenty of more biological reasons about diet, weight, and hunger as well, but I am not really qualified to speak to those.
I don’t know if that was close to what you are trying to get at, I just did want people to start blaming the innocent laws of thermodynamics. It is not their fault! They are not being violated, merely misapplied!
I’m down with thermodynamics, Emma, honest! Just not the idiots who apply them, as if they are a simple in and out equation, to the human body. Thermodynamics has really become a bludgeon with which to beat fat people and to justify calling us liars about our activity level and intake. It’s nutso.
Hi Marianne,
The body is indeed a mathematical equation, but as a researcher in complexity theory, I’ll tell you straight off that the equation has many, many, many more terms than just “calories in” and “energy expended.” There is energy stored, metabolic waste which contains calories, and many more terms. And they’re different for everyone. That is, people have different engines. Some store more upon consuming the same calories, some turn more into waste, convert a medium amount to heat, convert another X amount to cell metabolism in the right half of the liver or whatever.
People who are wounded have different engines than when they were ill. Pregnant women have different engines than when they were non-pregnant, and differet *post*-pregnant engines than both pregnant and before they were pregnant! Older people have different engines than when they were younger.
I mean, we have so much variety even in our *own* lifetime, and the variety between individuals is so vast, that “calories in = calories out” is a gross misconception at best.
And we all obey the laws of thermodynamics. But we don’t obey the laws of ignorant misconceived pseudo-scientific mistruths.
BigLiberty, the equation of the body is one that cannot currently be mapped. I am responding directly to the way thermodynamics is used as a bludgeon against fat people as if the body is as simple as 1+1=2 – and if you really want to get into theoretical maths, why that is true is pretty complex in and of itself!
Aren’t many scientific misconceptions being used as a bludgeon against fat people? I think the Thermodynamics misconception is, sadly, one of too many.
I think that we’ve been taking the wrong approach to clearing up the misconceptions though. I’m in the process of writing a whole post on that because I’ve been thinking about it for WEEKS. Ugh.
Short version: There will always be someone who says, and I’m sure you’ve heard this before: “It’s entirely possible to waste energy, but you can’t produce any out of thin air.” Voila, they’ve won. Here’s the thing that really matters: If, on a cellular level, fat people are really “receiving” more energy than thin people, they NEED it. It’s not overconsumption, and that’s the key point.
“Oh, okay then. If I just fidget more, I’m sure I’ll drop 70 lbs. and be “normal.” ”
That’s so funny.
I pace the house all the time and am constantly moving and my 50 pounds haven’t fallen off lol.
Well there goes that theory.
Oh, okay then. If I just fidget more, I’m sure I’ll drop 70 lbs. and be “normal.”
Well, now I am confused. I spend about five hours a day at work pacing, sometimes at a pretty good clip, and I’m still fat. Should I start twiddling my thumbs at the same time?
I have a family member who is sure I must be stuffing my face 90% of the time, because all the dancing I do “would otherwise have burned off the fat long ago.”
*rolls eyes*
Luckily I only see her about twice a year. Gives me six months to gear up…
It’s clearly the cough drops, Sniper.
I agree with BigLiberty and Emma, thermodynamics obviously still applies to the human body, but the way energy is processed, stored, etc. in individual bodies is so complex as to make it a meaningless “explanation” as to why people are fat or thin. When used in this way it transforms from valid science to a logical fallacy (because most people who use this bludgeon have a vastly oversimplified understanding of it, and worse than that, rely only on their own personal experience to make pronouncements about everyone else in the world) real quick.
We should totally start a movement. “Stop the Abuse of Thermodynamics!” Then when people get all confused and want to know more, we can introduce them to Emma
DRST
Hey TR, I just wanted to say thank you for this piece of wisdom today.
http://nathreee.livejournal.com/174011.html
What kills me is that the whole “caloies in/calories out” canard is based on a bomb calorimeter, i.e., a closed-system, man-made, mechanical device. Humans are none of those things. It’s like saying well, water boils at 212F, period, end of story. Well, at sea level (i.e. at a certain air pressure and atmospherinc oxygen content) that’s true, but change the air pressure and/or oxygen content and, voila, water boils at a different temperature. Thermodynamics.
If the calorie in/calorie out thing was so easy, it would be easier to not only lose weight, but know just how much you’re going to gain if you eat something.
Our bodies are complex things and we’re all dealing with genetics, vitamins, activity levels etc.
If it was that simple then during studies when people are put on the same diet/same exercise routine, they would lose exactly the same amout of weight each week as all their other peers.
The important thing is to focus on eating healthful food, getting some exercise and being happy.
Good post, thanks!
When people use the Thermodynamics argument, I simply point out that they are an excellent example of the way the Law of gravity prevents blood from getting to their brains.
It’s just that simple.
For many months in college, I compulsively tracked calories in and exercise done (using, of course, averages someone came up with), trying very hard to make sure calories in > calories out (I lost an unhealthy amount of weight my freshman year and was having a must-be-healthy reaction to my girlfriend-at-the-time’s anorexia–not a totally mentally healthy reaction, mind).
I did not gain weight. I have a fast metabolism now and probably eat less than I burn and I’ve actually gained weight recently.
The human body is so very much more complicated than in – out = 0.