Right on, Sheila. A few years ago, I was working on a novel that had a 300-lb. character. I gave part of it to a (fat) reader who said, “You should make her 200 lbs. You and I both know what 300 lbs. looks like,* but the average reader will think that’s unfathomably huge, and they won’t sympathize with her. If you say 200, then they’ll picture what 300 lbs. actually looks like.”

Sadly, she wasn’t wrong about any of it (including the audience not sympathizing thing, which I’m sure is why fat entertainers lie about their weight). But I’m not going to be one more friggin’ person pretending 300 lbs. = 200 lbs. to preserve the decencies. Especially when I’m practically your body twin, Sheila, and I’m constantly told I don’t look fat enough to be so concerned with fat rights. GAH.

*Insofar as it’s possible to know what X lbs. looks like, given different body shapes.

Yeah, my sister is freaking out about weighing 140 pounds. 140 pounds is not heavy (she wears a size 6 for goodness sake), but she thinks it is because everyone who actually weighs 140 claims to weigh 120, and everyone who claims to weigh 140 weighs more like 180.

Me? I weigh 196 pounds (at 5′1). And just two years ago I would have completely freaked out about that number, because it’s so close to OMG 200 POUNDS! but now… I’m okay with it. Thanks to all the wonderful people in the fatosphere.

I was amazed first that she had thought that, and second that I had the guts to tell her my real weight (as far as I know it – that’s what I was the last time I got weighed 2 or 3 years ago).

See also: all the players in The Rotund’s Guess My Height and Weight Game who said, “Well, you look like me, so… 5′7″ and 180?”

I must respectfully disagree with the good doctor.

I’ve got a photo of myself with Candye Kane, taken several years ago. Looking at us side-by-side, if she told me she was 200 pounds on that date, I’d believe her. Easily. Thing is, she’s not telling us she’s 200 pounds. “200 Lbs of Fun” is from her Swango album, released ten years ago. Anyone who’s 300 pounds has been 200 pounds, and could well have written a song about it when they were.

Does she have a right to continue to include it in her live shows? Absolutely. I’ve seen women with four pounds of make-up and spectacularly fake tah-tahs belt out “Natural Woman,” and scores of Southern peeps sing “Yankee Doodle Dandy” whilst being neither doodle nor dandy. (I could come up with better examples if I wasn’t so hungry.)

Candye Kane is preaching in the missions nightly, working her audiences into a fat-lovin’ frenzy, and in recent months, fighting for her life. I respect the piss outta that woman, and happily give her carte blanche to continue singing her songs, no matter at what weight they were written.

Also, as a songwriter, albeit an amateur, I can tell you that when songwriters (much like novelists) write “I” they are not necessarily talking about themselves. And agreed with Substantia, the recording of the song is at least 10 years old and who knows how long it had been around before that. Plus, the woman is ill with cancer; even if she was closer to 300 pounds before she might well be 200 pounds now, even less for all we know.

But point taken, the lying about weight IRL is a load of BS. And age, too. If I tell people I’m just shy of 45 and 200 pounds and they haven’t met me, I’m sure they get a VERY different “mental picture” of who I am. And yeah, a lot of it does have to do with all the fudging.

Oh..my..god..

I’m going to say right now that Hogging article just had me in tears, worse because that was written in my city, those are people who live around me… I’m actually neurotic to go to a bar now =\ That is the most horrible thing I’ve ever heard jesus wtf?! is wrong with my city >_<

Anywho:
She certainly is not 200 lbs… but that number is so important to people. So much so they feel they have to lie to people, as if that number will somehow change your life… but it doesn’t. We get so skewed from that too, our preception of weight is off, and it puts the preception of our bodies skewed in our minds.

Our preception of weight is so off I constantly get the “No way!” when I tell people how much I weigh, they sometimes ask me to get on scales.

But lucky for me I’ve always won those stupid weight games at amusement parks

I’m not touching the “hogging article” with a 10-foot pole. In fact, I don’t even know what that term means, and I’m OK with that.

Candye Kane’s actual weight aside, I agree 100% with every point made in this post. This is something that has been bothering me a lot for a very long time. I’m sure it wasn’t an original idea even then, but I remember bitching online about 10 years ago that we should take a day and all wear t-shirts with our actual weights on them because people’s perceptions were so fucked up. At the time I think I may have been complaining about a Judith Krantz novel (!) (or maybe it was one of those horrible books by that woman who writes trashy novels exclusively about Florida…Pat Booth I think, god help me… it was the ’90s and I’m a sucker for romance novels, it’s not my fault) in which the evil nemesis of the beautiful main character is described as this disgusting whale of a person, her skirts straining to contain her cellulite-covered thighs, at 160 lbs. Now, leaving aside that anyone can have cellulite, as well as how repugnant it is to signify that a character is evil by making her fat, it also really pissed me off that the character would almost certainly have had to weigh much more than 160 to meet the physical description in the book.

This can kind of go the other way too to the point that how we think of weight and size is almost based more on PR than anything else. Beth Ditto is fat and in-your-face, so people think she’s 200 pounds (or perhaps 250). Kelly Clarkson is considered “fat” by the psychos on gossip web sites, so according to them she is estimated to be a “size 14″ and therefore “overweight” and “unhealthy.” Kate Winslet is supposed to be “curvy,” so therefore people assume she’s somewhere between an 8 and a 12. None of this speculation seems to have anything to do with these people’s actual weight or size.

Personally I think Kelly’s probably around an 8, and I haven’t seen a recent picture of Kate that would ever convince me she’s bigger than a 6 these days… but I’m sure my weight-estimation skills are as screwed up as everybody else’s, so it’s not like I think these guesses mean anything. Nor, of course, do I actually care how much celebrities weigh.

I’m probably the only one here who watches this terrible show, but I think the contestants and gladiators on American Gladiators sometimes fudge their weights too. It’s not the people who claim to weigh 150-160 or more that I doubt; it’s the women who are seriously musclebound and their stats say they’re 110, 120, or 130. Of course I don’t know for sure, but if they are fudging downward then that really bothers me because I think America could stand to not only see more strong, muscular women on their TV screens, but also to get it through our skulls that “normal-sized” women do weigh more than 130 sometimes.

Lilah, yes! I was just thinking of that example. Lula in the same series who is constantly described as very large, very fat, is described at one point as “5′4 and 180 pounds”. Those books are so fun but so fat unfriendly (and somewhat racist). *sighs*.

An even worse example though to me is Anita Blake who is 5′3 and weighs 104 pounds, and she’s supposed to be curvy and very muscular. I see in the graphic novels they’ve changed her weight to freaking 95 pounds. this is not what 95 pounds looks like people! Not even on a short person!

Becky, is she about four foot seven? Because in that case I would believe that was 95 pounds.

I guess the idea is that your basic regular woman weighs 100 pounds, and since she’s got a very narrow waist she must weigh 5 pounds less. So as to be, you know, aspirational.

In fact a woman who looks like that (or as close as you can get and not be a comic book) might weigh around 140 on average, but imagine telling your average male that.

I was deeply confused about this years ago when I read Silence of the Lambs. One character refers to a size 16-18 girl as a “great big fat person” and throughout the novel size fourteen is considered huge. HUh? Also, I didn’t know there was an Anita Blake graphic novel… gosh, with the giant sex fest the series has become, that could be the most graphic of novels!

She is supposed to be 5′3 – *sighs*.

And bekbek, I think they’ve only done Guilty Pleasures but if they make it past Obsidian Butterfly they will have to start selling them in the “adult” section!

In my early university years, I remember our friends beginning to talk about this, and my size 4/6 friend (with big breasts and muscles and shoulders but not hippy – mesomorphic?), was 145 and 5′4″. Which was exactly where I’d been in high school that lead me to an eating disorder. I was, at the time, about 160 and 5′4″, and a size 10/12, but hourglass (and I had a smaller waist but way bigger hips than my size 2 friend.) So I started asking *everyone*, and we were all over the map.

I was still confused, though. I couldn’t believe that the reason my friends and I were so far off the mainstream was that media was lying. (Oh, Gullible Dayz.) And I knew two or three people who said they really were the 125 I thought was the “woman” weight.

So I decided that I just happened to know people with Really Dense Bone Structure. We were “The Solids”.

Oh, I’m reminded of another instance. An acquaintance asked me to review his personal ad. In it he specified that he was looking for a woman who was: “Not too overweight – not more than 130 pounds”. I had to laugh a little because his thought process was so transparent – 120 pounds is the maximum “thin” weight, so 10 pounds “overweight” would make 130. I had to explain to him that different weights look different on different people, and many women (particularly those who are tall or large framed or muscular) could weigh significantly more than 130 pounds and still look less than 10 pounds “overweight”.

this lying about weight thing has ALWAYS bothered me. i know that personally, i am very thick. the last time i went to a gym and got weighed and calipered and all that, the “professional” told me that at 5′8″ and 340 pounds, i had 199 pounds of bone, muscle, etc. so for me to ever weigh less than 200 pounds means zero percent body fat. and let me tell ya, that ain’t happening. ever.

i used to work at avenue a zillion years ago, and women would come in and buy clothes that were larger than the 22/24 i wore back then, and they would complain in the fitting room of “i only weigh 230 pounds! why doesn’t this 28/30/32/whatever fit?!?!” and i would be shocked because i easily weighed 300 then.

so i don’t know.

stop lying. your weight is okay. your body is okay.

Perhaps she has 200 lbs of fun, and a bunch of other pounds made of drama, or boredom, or something else.

I’ve thought about not lying about my weight in forms I fill out (driver’s license, government forms) but then I worry that the information might be used against me later. What if my company suddenly decides to reduce health benefits for those of us who have a BMI of over 30? I usually put a number that puts me in the BMI=29 range.

Arwen, as a teen, I was also puzzled by “mainstream” weights vs my own. Funnily enough, I came to the same conclusion as you: I must have really dense bones! Ah, innocence.

Argh. Awful. Just awful.

I read the hogging story and wasn’t hurt to tears, but it is sad. I feel bad for the women who have one-night stands perform sexual acts for men they don’t know andwind up wasting themselves on ungrateful, uncaring men. I feel bad for the guys who have such a twisted view of the world, sex, and women in general.

Then I read the story linked from that page about Dr. Ruf and his horrid sexual harassment offenses that continued unchecked for more than 30 YEARS! Talk about misogyny! On the last page, he blames the patient’s obesity for his medical incompetence.

Argh. Just argh.

(I ranted more about it on my blog, if you want to vent your spleen: http://weblog.xanga.com/Rhonwyyn/662390110/obesity-as-scapegoat.html )

I love the Jilly Cooper books; they are like pony books for grownups, but they are seriously fat-unfriendly. Size 14 or 16 is described as huge, and of course totally unattractive. The only good thing is that diets don’t seem to work for people, or if they lose weight they soon gain it back, so at least that is realistic!

uh, that should be 9″, not 9′ — heehee.

I agree, sarah. I mean, I can guess that Candye isn’t 200, but she could easily be 230 or 250–those numbers are not quite as catchy, are they? It’s merely artistic license. Personally I wouldn’t have presumed that the title of the song was supposed to be accurate.

I understand and agree with parts of the original post and many of the comments (the Hollywood portrayal of 200 lbs. is just skewed and ridiculous), but I don’t think it’s disingenuous if people don’t want to reveal their true weights, and I definitely don’t think it’s requisite for SA/FA/HAES proponents to do so either. I see how something like the BMI Project or Guess My Weight can be beneficial, but I am uncomfortable with frowning upon people who haven’t discussed or don’t want to discuss the numbers on the scale.

I to have to give Miz Kaye the benefit of the doubt, I’m sure there’s an old jazz/blues track in a similar vein out there somewhere. Although I do take your point that we shouldn’t lie about weight, as has been pointed out, slim women are just as bad if not worse for this nonsense.

As for the hogging article, I wouldn’t take much heed of it, it strikes me as a pathetic attempt at self esteem on the part of these men. They are liars, don’t believe them.

(friday flipness:)

Maybe only 200 lbs of her *is* fun – maybe the other N pounds is mean and cranky.

Oh, man – that Scene article. I remember reading it years ago, and it’s certainly stuck with me since then. I’m kind of surprised that anyone outside of Cleveland read that article, especially given that no one outside of Ohio seems to care much about the North Shore. And while it’s normally a point of pride for me to see a link to the paper I’ve freelanced for since 2005, it’s a shame that it has to be an article exposing the (not so) well-kept secret that NEO has more than its fair share of assholes, especially in the dating scene. (Then again, my way-out-of-towner Boy asserts that “there are assholes everywhere,” even in his beautiful country.)

However, as a former NEO resident and arts/entertainment freelancer, I feel it’s my duty to tell you all that there is a lot more to Cleveland than women-fearing wankers. We’ve got an awesome music scene, national touring acts, world class museums, and plenty of bizarre events that take place year round. Trust me, I know – I’ve covered them all in just three years. (Warning – gratuitous linkage ahead.) So please, come to Northeast Ohio – there’s more to us than misogyny.

Katie – you should get hired by the Bureau of Tourism.

Withoutscene – now THAT would be an awesome song.

withoutscene — you’re right — i feel the tension of those 2 arguments in myself, but it’s sort of a hard thing to articulate. i think, on the one hand, people who practice sa/fa/ba try very hard to be weight-neutral and not think about that arbitrary scale number. on the other hand, in a society that seems bent on shaming fat people, it makes sense for fat activists to desire transparency and honesty about weight.
i agree wholeheartedly that our societ y in general has a very skewed perception of weight and “what fat looks like.” and it’s absolutely true that if, for instance, celebrities are regularly claiming to weigh less than they do, that only fosters confusion and misapprehension for all us regular folks.
i hope i didn’t seem too critical of the original post before, i think this is an important discussion to have; i just think my initial reaction to “she can’t possibly weigh what she says she does” is that it’s a form of bodysnark. i *do not* think that’s what dr. addison was doing in this post at all, though, that’s just my knee-jerk reaction to speculating about someone’s size.
and yeah, incoporating different weights into the song would be really cool.

Hello dr. sheila.

wow. you have a lot of nerve calling me a liar in print when you clearly dont have the guts to contact me personally which would have been easy to do since my address and email are on the first page of my website! I will be surprised if you actually print this response since you chose to remove my partners response about my nine hour surgery and its aftermath – but here is my response anyway:

I have NEVER lied about my weight. I wrote the song 200 lbs of fun in 1997 when I weighed 200 lbs. Over ten years time, I came to gain 65 lbs and weighed 265 on april 18, 2008 when I underwent surgery for my pancreatic cancer. I have since lost 65 pounds and am now again 200 lbs of fun. I continued to perform my song, 200 pounds of fun at my shows all around the world, no matter how much my weight fluctuated, because it is part of my repertoire and my fans want to hear the songs they are familiar with from my cds. I often made jokes about the song from the bandstand ie; ” I am a lot more fun now than when I first wrote this song” etc etc. but I continued to do the song anyway because its a fun celebration of size and most of my big women fans love the song.

For this writer, dr. sheila to accuse me of lying when she has never had the nerve to contact me herself and ask me, is rude, presumptive and irresponsible. I am 5 foot 5 and do not stand a head shorter than penn jillette except with my platform shoes which I wore in the picture with penn, that I assume dr. sheila is referring to. Again, dr. sheila makes a big assumption that I am fatter and taller than what she thinks she sees in a photo taken more than ten years ago.

This whole blog reminds me of the unpleasant experience I had when I attended my first NAAFA convention in anaheim, many years ago. At 220 lbs and a size 20, I was too fat to buy dresses at normal clothing stores and was relegated to the standard fat girl staples such as lane bryant. I went to the NAAFA convention looking for some sequin gowns to wear onstage and hoped I would find some in my size. As I browsed the merchandise in one clothing stand, the very large saleswoman came over to me, eyed me up and down and said “If youre shopping for yourself, we have nothing that will fit you. You are way too thin for this clothing line. why are you even here?”

I was shocked and embarrassed and slinked away in shame. I was so sad to be too fat for mainstream society and mall clothing but too thin for the NAAFA convention! I felt that I didnt fit in anywhere. I was relieved that I had music as an outlet and a rich foundation of fans, family and friends who made me feel beautiful and worthy but I was haunted by that salesperson and her callous remarks. What if I had been searching for a place to belong, and this woman shot me down with her comments at the very moment I was finally trying to gain some feeling of community? Luckily for me, I had a lot of self confidence and a lot of supportive friends, but what if I hadnt been that lucky?

It is so typical for people to be consumed with our differences instead of what unites us. How sad that Dr. Sheila would rather dwell on our differences and call me a liar, than actually find the reasons why we are kindred spirits and focus on why we are alike. Anyone over a size 12 is made to feel fat in our culture. Any of us who dont fit into the stereotypical brainwashed images of stick – thin beauty are considered outsiders. Yes, the bigger our size, the harder it is to blend in, but the fact is whether we are 50 pounds or 150 pounds overweight, we are marginalized and made to feel invisible in this skinny world.

Dr. Sheila and I are on the same side, but she apparently doesnt care and would rather point an accusatory, judgmental finger at me, like so many others. How is she any different than the numerous fat haters of society who presume that because we are fat, we must be lazy, gluttonous pigs who dont care about ourselves? I am so saddened by this rush to judgment by a fat sister who should be my ally and friend in our common struggle against sizism.

And as for dr. sheilas comment about BBW porn and weight lies in those forums, let me address that too. Dont be so naive dr. sheila, to think that BBW porn models have any control or choice over what is written about us under our photos. As a former nude model who appeared in hundreds of large sized mags, I saw all kinds of strange editorial written about me. I was called Mammary Max, Marty and Celeste even though my legal name, Candice Kane, was clearly written on every modeling release. My bust size ranged from 44FF to 60G, I jumped in age from 18 to 30, and my ethnicity was listed as italian, irish, jewish, armenian and hungarian and all at the discretion of whatever magazine editor happened to be working at the desk of Voluptuous or JUGGS that week. There is very little truth in porn magazines. The truth is not always what it seems to be.

and hey dr. sheila, Thanks for saying I am awesome as an afterthought, after you so eloquently called me a liar in your blog piece. Whether you believe me or not is irrelevent. I will continue to speak the truth about my weight and my personal life as I always have; sharing my controversial politics about sexuality, gay rights and sizism whether it is popular or not. I will continue to speak out on these subjects and perform my songs of inclusion, size celebration and triumph over adversity, even if my cancer comes back and I shrink to a size well under the 200 lbs I am now. I will continue to perform my songs like 200 lbs of fun, Big Fat mamas are back in style, work what you got, and You need a great big woman, because I know there are women (present company exlcuded) who appreciate what I do and flood me with emails and letters telling me so. I will continue to write and sing these songs, because as a big woman, I know how it feels to be cast aside and ridiculed because of how I look. I will continue to do these songs, even as my cancer turns me skinny because no amount of weight loss will ever erase the pain and suffering I have experienced as an outsider in this world. I will continue to do these songs because when I sing songs celebrating big women, I know I am a voice that needs to be heard.

so you can go ahead and call me a liar all you want dr. sheila. I am glad you were too busy to appear at my benefit. I dont need people from the same side calling me names. I get plenty of that from the skinny people all around me who dont understand why a fat girl would ride a bike or go to the gym. I just didnt expect for my cancer to arouse such animosity and shallow assumptions from someone I have never even met or heard from. I wont be letting you know how much weight I lose or gain in the next ten years. Its really none of your business anyway. At the end of the day, I am still FAT and FAT is okay with me.

Candye Kane