I went shopping yesterday with a friend of mine. She needed a suit and, well, that’s something you rarely want to shop for alone. About a year or so ago, I needed a suit and she went shopping for same with me.
While this trip was nerve-wracking for her for many other reasons, I want to compare the objective facts of our respective trips.
Yesterday, we went to one mall. She tried on suits in four or five stores before finding one that was just about freaking perfect. While it felt like it took a while, the actual suit-shopping portion of the trip took just over two hours. (We started with lunch, looking at makeup, then took a break and went shopping for more stuff – it was nearly a 6-hour day at the mall, all told.) We went into department stores and found suits in every price range but we also went into regular mall stores, like Express and J.Crew and the like and found suits in multiple price ranges. The department stores had suit sections or were divided by designer and directions to the areas were easy to follow.
A year and a half ago, we started at the same mall. My only options were the department stores because there are no plus-sized stores in that mall at all. We had to ask where the plus-sized clothes were because they were, in some department stores, not even on the same floor with the other clothes. The location answer was inevitably, “Oh, that’s in the back of the store. In the corner.” (Which was STILL the answer yesterday when I took a quick look around at the I.N.C. plus line.) We went to a second mall, but Lane Bryant was not currently carrying suiting. We finally found two things for me to try on, one of which both fit and looked pretty good. I’d wanted pants but couldn’t find any and so wound up with an ankle-length skirt. Fortunately, it was on clearance, so it was about the same price as the suit she bought yesterday (which was also on sale).
I absolutely appreciate that shopping is hard for everyone. That is the nature of off-the-rack clothing. That’s why “nicer” stores offer alterations – because chances are good your measurements, whatever size you happen to be, do not match the measurements and proportions of the fit models used to design the line.
But I left the mall pissed the hell off because, hello, there is a market for plus-sized clothes and it is dying to spend money and dress in fun and interesting fashion. (I am sure that really thin women also have this problem, though the majority of the stores we were in carried a size 0, because of cut and styling.)
The plus-sized section at Macy’s yesterday…. TRASHED. Clothes on the floor, no sales associates, poorly grouped. I tried on a number of things, in a number of sizes. Yesterday, my friend tried on things in two sizes. I tried on everything from a 1X to a 26. The 1X fit AWESOMELY. The 26 was too small. I did find a cute top that wasn’t $80 – a Style & Co shirt in a wonderful rich blue color that was 30%, so score. The majority of the other clothes were… really bad. But that was the extent of my options at that mall, which is why I generally only go there for the MAC Pro store.
I get tired of looking at something cute, like the bright yellow jacket from Michael Kors I saw yesterday, only to realize that if I want something similar, I’ll have to make it myself or pay someone else to make it. This is the number one reason, on my personal list, that I sometimes feel bad about my body. The clothing industry seems to think that my money isn’t good enough to spend on their clothes.
I try to concentrate on the anger that brings up, instead of responding the way I’m SUPPOSED to – which is, of course, to resolve to lose weight (through some magical, as of yet undiscovered method). Anger is useful. Hold on to it.
Her suit looks great, so the trip was absolutely worthwhile, but I think it will be a while before I can confidently stride through that mall to the MAC Pro Store without feeling the weight (no pun intended) of a whole mall that has no use for me.
22 Comments
I agree- there’s a market here that’s not being properly served.
I also don’t think that you’re going to get a revolution through the power of Etsy. It seems to me that what needs to happen is that a fat designer needs to partner up with a couple of decent businesspeople and come up with a business plan.
It’s only a matter of time before someone becomes an “overnight success” by doing this, and I think there’s a lot of money to be made. I’m just surprised that no one has actually done it yet. I also find it impossible to believe that all fashion designers are thin.
So I suppose the question is- what is stopping fat fashion designers from doing this now? What is holding them back?
I also agree. When I still could, I was paying through the nose for Yansi Fugel suiting, but they don’t make clothes big enough for me these days; I go to Talbot’s Woman, usually. I pay too much, but the suits fit well. Have you ever tried there?
what is stopping fat fashion designers from doing this now? What is holding them back?
Perhaps they fear being typecast as a fat fashion designer? In the fashion world, this is an insult. However you would think the almighty dollar would eventually win out. With current studies placing some 60 percent of Americans as overweight and obese, it only makes sense to make clothes the majority of the population can actually purchase.
I used to work for a bank owned by Charming Shoppes, parent company of Fashion Bug, Lane Bryant and Catherines. I worked there at the time of the Lane Bryant and Catherine’s acquisition, and it was a godsend for the company. It’s misses and juniors sales had been severely lagging, and they were surprised to find their plu-size sales booming. They decide to dominate the plus-size market by purchasing Catherines and Lane Bryant and their stocks have been consistently way up ever since.
I do try to acknowledge the fact that body-image issues weigh on just about everyone, of every size. And chief among these complaints is the inability to find clothes that fit, which is a near-universal experience for women across size ranges.
But you know, while thin women may have a hard time finding clothes that fit, they’re having a hard time finding WAY MORE CLOTHES than fat women are. Ideally I’d like consistently-sized fashion in a large range of basic sizes, plus easy access to good tailors. But I’d settle for having lots more options to reject.
Malls suck. Peaches rule!
http://www.loveyourpeaches.com
(note the gorgeous fat models!)
And Jeannette who runs Love Your Peaches will make anything custom fit exactly for you. Her clothes are not cheap (hey, living wage to NorAm workers is not cheap). But the peachskin suits? Are the BOMB. No wrinkling, machine washable, softer and softer as you wash them.
I think the fashion industry in general avoids putting a lot of collective energy into fat-tastic clothing design because it senses certain traits about most overweight people (as opposed to rad fatties, which are _distinctly_ in the minority). These traits are counter-irritants for developing fashion with overweight people in mind.
- They don’t want to be fat, and are deep in the fantasy about being on their way–someday soon!–permanently to another body.
- They don’t want other people to look at them until they get to that body.
- Until such time as they get to that body, they are mostly content to take whatever slides off the hanger onto the floor, and–wearing that sad sack–they imagine that they are hidden from the public gaze.
That’s my take on why the fashion industry, again, as a collective, doesn’t give a rat’s ass. Because of all the women over size 14, and especially toward the higher ends, very few are willing to demand more. Because we don’t think we deserve it. We aren’t any kind of voting bloc, economic, social change, or otherwise, if 95% of us (unscientific!) really don’t want to be us.
I agree that holding onto our anger is key, and making sure it’s directed , outward, where it belongs.
I also find it helpful to shop with my husband. When he was looking for work clothes, he went to store after store, and his problem, oddly enough, is that he’s so damned *thin*. He’s 6′ tall and about 150lbs, which means he wears about a 30″Long in pants.
Most men’s shirts that aren’t specifically designed to fit slender men hang from him and make him look like a tall, gangly boy wearing adult clothes. And that means that the shirts that do fit well cost a lot more than he’d like to spend. And suit jackets end up looking way boxy on him (think David Byrne).
Most stores don’t sell trousers that’ll fit him, as if the waist’s right, they’re inevitably too short in the leg.
So whenever I’m feeling particularly low about clothing shopping in my own body, I look at him and remember that there’s nothing wrong with either of our bodies. We just don’t fit the mold. And, having lived and eaten together for 20 years now, we’re walking evidence that metabolism matters (and that opposites sometimes really do attract!)
Can I just add?
Try getting fucking dancewear for anything over XL. It chaps my ass, literally and figuratively, and has made me want to start a Big Moves line of dance and activewear for YEARS. But I need a designer and backers, and I also need not to lose my own money. Not a recipe for success, yet.
Rachel and kmd,
I think all your points are well taken. However it seems to me that now- right now, as the fat acceptance movement is really beginning to come together and make itself known, is the time to consider that it can be more than any one thing, like blogging. It can take on so many facets. It’s an entire shift in thinking and also in culture. Clothing is perfect for that, particularly as so many people find it difficult to locate clothes that suit them.
It’s true that if 95% of fat people aren’t going to get on board with accepting themselves then it might not matter. The whole clothing thing becomes part of the cycle of self-punishment. “You don’t *deserve* nice things because you’re fat.” But 10 years ago there wasn’t a network of people writing and talking about this in the same way they are now. Perhaps more people are getting fed up. I’d like to hope so. I don’t think TR and Kate would have been given a book deal were this not the case.
I think that *someone* is going to be the first person to really bust open that industry segment like an overripe melon. It’s just a matter of who gets there first. I just hope whoever it is calls me to design the stores.
I think another part of the problem is women like me. I’ve never been able to afford to pay more than $10 or $15 for a top, and forget about $40 or more for jeans or slacks. Now that I can afford to pay that, once in a blue moon, I have a really hard time justifying spending that kind of money on clothes. For so many years, I could buy the fabric I liked, in the color and print I liked, and make 4 tops for what it would cost to buy one. Not being into fashion, per se, I don’t care about the label, what I care about is a style I like, in a fabric I like, with the color and print I like. I’m picky about those things, and most of what I see on the racks today, well, I might like the style and hate the color, or like the color and hate the style, etc etc. It’s why I did a lot of sewing, and am going to be getting back into it once the season of cold ends and I can get upstairs without having to let my sewing room warm up for a couple of hours first.
Don’t have much to say except I FEEL YOU. I went dress shopping with some friends of mine (They needed gowns for a preformance, I needed one for a wedding.)
They tried on gowns at at least… 7 stores. I tried on 1 dress I found at nordstroms, that wasn’t even appropriate, but I liked it. And it didn’t fit. Their problems “Oh, it puckers a bit here, oh it’s not quite long enough, I hate this neckline, I hate the color, it’s slightly too something and slightly too something else somewhere else.” Compare that to “Uhh, it’s too small to go over my ass.”
Whenever non plus sized women complain about finding clothes I find it hard to suppress my urge to choke them.
I actually considered opening a plus sized boutique for a while that focused on suiting and higher end dresses which are often not stocked at the regular plus sized places. But I have no money. Anyone with money wanna be my business partner?
I always hear of plus gals finding cute clothes at Macy’s or Nordstrom and I very rarely even look, but when I do I am always dissapointed. I don’t even set foot in those stores unless I’m looking for perfume or makeup…sad! My money is very green!
Anyone with money wanna be my business partner?
Took the words right out of my mouth, Shinobi! If I had the resources I know I could crack it. And, if I ever win the lottery, that ’s exactly what I’ll do with the money.
I have always had this pipe dream of starting a swap/resale place for plus size clothing. No dough or time, really, but that would be so awesome.
If I had artistic skills or any business acument or money, I’d attempt a line of clothing for plus size women. Alas, I don’t have any of the above, but I agree, the market is just crying for an affordable, fun line in brick and mortar stores. I don’t want to pay $30 for a flimsy nylon top! I don’t want grandma-clothes when I am not even out of my 20s yet! Also, we need a more standardized way of measuring.
If I liked/was good at sewing at all, I would totally start my own line for plus sized women. I was having this VERY conversation with my girlfriend this weekend. It infuriates me that we are forced to buy so many things on line (like at The Gap or the like) and that so often the plus sized section is in the freaking BASEMENT. WTH!? It’s insulting.
psst … bronxelf … the comment attribution appears at the *bottom* of the comment. So I think you were addressing your reply to bigmovesbabe and fillyjonk, not to Rachel and me.
Combine the challenges you’ve all described so well with my utter lack of fashion sense…and you have the reason I dress in tent-sheik.
I WOULD dress well, if I knew how (and could afford it)!
kmd- thanks. And to think, I checked it like three times, too.
This is a subject that always gets my panties in a bunch! I’ve been giving it a lot of thought lately and asking everyone–fat and skinny–about clothes shopping experiences. Turns out the skinny chicks aren’t much happier than we are about the choices out there. My taller –like anyone over 5′6″ and my shorter friends are always annoyed. Sleeves/pant legs are too long/short etc. Even with way more stuff to choose from, they still come away from the mall feeling bad about themselves.
THEN I went suit shopping with my husband. WHAT a revelation! Suits are all lined up for tall guys, short guys, fat guys, thin guys. It’s all there and no one has to feel bad about themselves because there’s nothing in the store that fits or looks good. Shirts come in various sleeve/neck sizes. Even the freaking TIES come in various lengths so the big guys don’t look dopey for the tie being too short.
In menswear they make OR ALTER the clothes to fit the man. In womenswear, it’s the opposite. They make the clothes, and we are expected to mold our bodies to fit into them. And I’ll tell you, I have shopped in Macy’s and Nordstrom and other high end stores and non one has EVER, EVER offered to deal with the alterations. I have always had to pay extra for that. No so in the men’s dept. There is a tailor onsite. He’s usually the little fellow with the tape measure around his neck. The suit gets altered, no extra charge and you can pick it up–sometimes the next day.
The whole industry is ass backward and it makes me want to scream!
I’m having a hard time believing that our smaller sisters have the same issues finding clothing. How can they, when 99% of the stores out there are *for* them? Trying to find a store that sells plus sizes (besides LB, natch) is hard enough, much less finding one with plus sizes that *fit*. J.crew, Anthropologie, Banana Republic, Limited, Express… I don’t even bother going to the mall anymore, except to check out the downstairs of Macys where the plus sizes are safely tucked away. Going online has been a godsend. But it’s a catch-22: designers don’t want to spend money making fat=people clothes, because they think we won’t spend on them, so they settle for crap fabrics, and boring design. We don’t spend on clothes because they’re crap fabrics and badly designed. Designers say “see? fatties won’t spend the money! We were better off making clothes for skinny folks!”
Meanwhile, we’re left having to scrounge what we can.
ginag – Thin women have just as much variation in bodies as fat women. So, yes, when it comes to fit, it’s still difficult for them to find well-fitting clothes. The difference, as Fillyjonk pointed out in one of the early comments, is that they have a lot more clothes to reject. Their pool of options is wider. The basic difficulty – finding clothes that fit – is hard for EVERY WOMAN because off-the-rack clothes are just meant to be good enough.
And, I think you point out a big Catch-22 that designers and retailers exploit because they don’t necessarily want to sell clothes to fat people anyway.
Yep to the catch-22 situation–fat people don’t want to shell out for crap clothes and second-class treatment, so then stores and designers say, well, they don’t want stuff from us, see?–and they use it to justify their own institutional biases.
I think for the higher-end department stores and mass-market designers, having fatties shop in their stores, even in the back corner with limited selections, brings down the “tone” of the whole joint. They’re acting as if fat _is_ contagious, that it’ll smear all over their public image or brand, and leave big nasty streaks of negative crap in the minds of the non-fatties who comprise a much larger and already established segment of their audience. Why alienate their strong market (non-fatties) to court a market whose tastes and loyalty are untested at best?
Gah! Thinking about this stuff makes me want to go back to fig leaves (because I am, after all, of classic proportions). But I’ll need the largest leaves, thank you.