I’m going to keep writing this because it’s never going to get old or not be necessary:
Some conversations need to keep happening again and again.
And, in light of certain recent conversations I’m going to add on to that:
If you can’t have the newbie conversation in a civil fashion, don’t have it. You wind up looking like a reactive asshole fighting with your own allies.
There are ALWAYS going to be people involved in Fat Acceptance who believe things that don’t fall in line with what we as individuals think the movement is all about. Always. And I understand the frustration with dealing with that, I really do.
Dude, I taught high school to kids who had been expelled from the regular school system. I understand how frustrating it can be to repeat something over and over until you think everyone in the world ought to know the script from which you are reading.
But that isn’t how it works. There is no time when you get to stop, not if you are dealing with people who are new to the movement or just not as far along the self-acceptance path as you as an individual.
Now, part of this might be chalked up to my overwhelming earnestness and unbreakable optimism, but I think that is AWESOME. Because it means a constant crop of fresh faces, a constant stream of people moving closer to this idea that we don’t have to hate ourselves and our bodies, that we don’t have to punish ourselves for not living up to an arbitrary and fictional ideal.
It means that ideas are always being exchanged and we’re all challenged to clarify and strengthen our logic and positions on certain issues.
Like WLS.
There is no one in the movement saying that WLS is a good thing. There are a LOT of people saying it is a scary and dangerous thing that no one should be forced into – while acknowledging that sometimes people are forced to it. Either by doctors who refuse to see past fat or by the desperation that is force-fed to us in our culture. And when people reach that crisis point, do we have anything to offer them other than a straw at which to grasp, the idea that this might, MIGHT help them? No.
And that is something that needs to change. Which is why, even when I question why I started this blog, I come back to it and keep talking. I’m not a part of the medical profession so I can’t do anything directly, but I can keep talking and hope that people listen enough to question the care they are receiving and why that care is so limited.
That is not saying that WLS is the solution for some people. That is not saying it is a valuable option to preserve. That’s just acknowledging the reality of our current culture.
And people who ARE saying that WLS is a valid solution for people in extreme situations? They aren’t enemies of the cause. They aren’t attacking the foundations of Fat Acceptance. They aren’t trolls and they aren’t people who ought to be abused. They are people with an opinion with which I don’t agree.
We can either talk about it constructively (at which point we might wind up agreeing to disagree) or we can yell at each other, both refusing to hear the other person.
I know which one I choose. I know which one has more value to me.
Which means on days when I don’t think I can have the basic 101 conversation again, I don’t engage in it. If it is absolutely something that has to be addressed, I call for backup and ask someone else to step in. If it is absolutely something that has to be addressed, I come back to it. But I don’t sit down and assume someone is my enemy.
It is entirely possible that I am too earnest to be this political.
But until I come to that decision, I will continue to strive to engage with people in a constructive fashion rather than a destructive one.
Note: This does not mean I affirm the decision to lose weight. This does not mean I think Fat Acceptance as a political movement needs to be all “oooooooh, we love people on diets and think they are making AWESOME choices!”
If you are reading what I am saying as that, it is possible everything is coming to you through a wall of shit and, well, your shit is not my shit. (Check this link out, y’all. Zingerella is AWESOME.)
Compassion is not weakness. Hatred is not strength. Anger is powerful but only if you use it constructively.
I didn’t mean for this to turn into me renewing my commitment to the 101 conversation, but that’s what it has turned into and that is okay. Because I am so down with having this conversation. It may very well be the most important conversation we ever have.
20 Comments
Thank you. You are SO much my fucking hero for this.
Having just posted 101 version umpteen.0, I’m right with you.
And I think political movements could use a little more earnestness. Even if I’m not the one to bring it.
I think it is *way* important to always be reevaluating the foundations and educating people who are newly discovering actual fat people that don’t buy the institutionalized self-hate. I think dissecting WLD and WLS and everything connected to them (not to mention looking at why HAES is so awesome) is part of that really important work. I am all for that continuing cycle of education and analysis and questioning and challenging and consideration.
I’m really not for the who’s-in-who’s-out conversation, though. Sometimes I feel like it’s a fine line between that and the newbie discussion…and that’s where I think it gets counterproductive.
Thanks, Lindsay. Thank you.
Right on, Kate. I think the fat-o-sphere is a particularly GOOD place for the 101 stuff to happen though I know people get tired of it.
Tari, I think that’s my problem, too, with a lot of what I have seen lately. People who have been in the movement for a long time are, understandably, frustrated and angry because they don’t see the movement going anywhere. But, unfortunately for them, you can’t kick out the people who just aren’t at that stage of the game yet (if they will ever be). I think it’s important to state that Fat Acceptance as a movement, the part of the movement in which I am involved, is anti-diet and anti-WLS but I am not anti-people who do either of the above. I’m not affirming their choices but I’m not going to say they are the enemy either, particularly when they are struggling with enough shame and hurt and anger already.
Saying we need to be compassionate to people who have been forced to make the WLS decision is also not engaging in WLS apologetics. That’s the message I’m getting from some more established people – that they want to slam the door on people who don’t have clearly defined positions on WLS and never have the conversation again. I’m not cool with that.
Yeah, I totally get the debates over all that….but sometimes I feel like there’s so much “in v. out” processing going on, that there’s less energy left to talk about “…and then what?”
I have just recently found your blog (and therefore other great blogs!) and I’m loving the information, conversations, etc. you have going on here. (even the hard ones which have been happening – I’ve learned alot there too)
I know VERY little about the topics you all are discussing, but I’m tellin’ ya – it’s been great for me to learn!
I’ve never been skinny, never will be, and that’s OK with me! Thanks for helping me to realize (even more) that it truly is OK and there are others out there who feel the way I do! I appreciate it!
…and of course all of that is ongoing (less than two weeks until the think tank!!)….I’m just not a patient person.
I try to split my energy, which is why I have the action plan tag and why I work so hard on recognizing when I am sliding into old habits and on ways to change those habits and etc.. It’s not exciting stuff, but, for me, it’s a large part of what’s next – providing resources and support for other people who want to be okay with themselves. You know?
Tammy, hello and welcome. I hope you stick around and jump in on these conversations with us! And you are totally welcome.
Oh yeah.
Er, that was a comment of agreement, in case it sounded too generic.
Well said, great post!
I totally know, and I don’t mean to sound critical *at all* ’cause I think soooo many people are doing so much good work, speaking out, being visible (plus funny as hell), educating, modeling behavior – all big yays, and really exciting as an alternative message to the status quo. Big time kudos, TR, for all your efforts.
I’m just excited about the possibility of finding out what we can do in addition to the 101 parts of FA…
Thanks for saying this.
Yesterday I was called a “liar” simply for airing my personal views by someone who was still in short pants when I was busy tracking down possibly the only copy of Shadow On A Tightrope to be had in the UK. When I asked for clarification, my question was ignored and my comment – in which I attempted to distinguish the difference between what I was actually saying and how that had been misinterpreted – was deleted.
Being treated like some obnoxious divisive troll simply for being unable to view something as entirely black and white – after 21 years of FA advocacy – is more than a little insulting.
No, Tari, I get it. *grin* And I wish I could attend the Think Tank! I hope to get a full report when it is over!
Buffpuff, that straight up SUCKS. Dissenting voices make people uncomfortable but I think that’s a valuable thing. We don’t NEED to be comfortable inside the movement – we need to continue to feel uncomfortable as we claim our power and try to change the world. That discomfort is USEFUL. Trolls are one thing. Someone who disagrees about something is entirely different. I am sorry that happened to you.
I can see where people who have been in FA for years could get tired of rehashing the same old things over and over. But without that occasional rehash, those of us who are new to this would never know most of the ins, outs, ups, and downs of what has gone before us. And it is the new people coming in, questioning, learning, growing, that help this movement grow and gather steam by adding their anger to the veterans’ anger. The more of us there are, the louder our voices get, and the louder we get, the better chance we have to be heard and eventually, believed. Then, maybe then, people will be able to love themselves as they are and love others as they are, without hatred and bigotry and selfishness.
I think you’ve voiced your thoughts here beautifully. And I am very much in line with them. I am indeed very new to fat acceptance, and I am still working out my feelings in regards to weight loss, WLS, etc. But I think it’s wonderful that this discussion (however bitter it may get at times) is encouraged, because I know that I, personally, learn so much from it.
The problem is multi-fold. The people who have been around a while are tired of giving the 101 speech. And, because of culture differences, generational differences, or just changing times, every now and then you get an influx of different viewpoints and ideas. And the people who’ve been around a while don’t always agree with the new people. So when the NEXT round of new people comes in, the original group doesn’t necessarily trust wave #2 to give the 101 speech to wave #3.
They want it done, but done their way (or perhaps feel that their way makes so much sense that it shouldn’t have to be said – i’ve seen that in effect here and elsewhere). The tree that does not bend often breaks, and the opinion that does not change often chafes. Given enough time, chafing causes callouses. I’m extending my metaphors perhaps a bit too far, but essentially, a refusal to accept change, a refusal to adapt to modern culture is what leads to people becoming jaded.
We have to trust each other. We have to acknowledge that none of us is right 100% of the time. We have to trust each other at least enough to not let disagreements become accusations. We’re all human. We all make mistakes, we all have weak points in our intellect, our understanding, our emotions, our logic. We’re all so delightfully imperfect, and we can’t expect everyone to be the person we’d prefer them to be.
Sorry to ramble. Head’s a bit fuzzy today – hope this was still at least mildly intelligible.
Lindsay, I think you have identified something really important – the issue of trust.
And, you know, if I were to quit blogging today, I would trust you and Kate and Paul and a whole TON (no pun intended) of other people to make sure things stayed on track. Because I trust y’all to push for a world in which I’d want to live.
TR, all too often you are a voice of sanity and clear-headedness in what can sometimes be a mess. As such, i feel inclined to tell you that you are not allowed to leave.
Erm. I’ve been watching too much Star Trek. Damn Vulcans. Lemme translate.
OMG NOES DON’T LEEV ME HEER WIHT THEEZ CRAZIE PEEPELS!@@@!!!@#!@#@!!111one!!++NO CARRIER
(lulz)
“Thank you. You are SO much my fucking hero for this.”
Echoed, here.