As many of you probably know, Dan Savage of Savage Love wrote a column that focused on fat. The first letter he dealt with, in response to a person who loved to fuck fat girls but hated to associate with them, has set a lot of people on fire in a good way. Because Dan Savage takes this person to task for their hateful and bigoted attitudes.
But, oh wait, it isn’t that Dan Savage is pro-fat people. It’s okay to be attracted to them – it’s just not okay to actually BE fat.
Nor, according to Dan Savage, are fat rights a “real” problem of social justice. In this thread over on one of Kate’s recent entries at Shakesville, Dan Savage showed up and…. Well, he just proved Kate’s point about him.
This whole idea that someone who is an incredibly privileged white male can come along and just deny the existence of fat rights as a social justice issue pisses me off. Because, yes, Dan Savage is gay and that means he lacks some privilege but he’s still a WHITE MIDDLE CLASS MALE. So of course he gets to decide what is and is not a truly important issue.
And in case that doesn’t read correctly – because I’ve had some troubles with this before – that last sentence there is utterly sarcastic and to be read in a tone of scorn and derision.
The truth is that too many progressives have internalized our culture’s attitudes and fears about fat. And, instead of questioning those attitudes and fears, too many progressives run blithely alongside of the fat-hate parade float, collecting fat-hate beads every time they publicly hate a fat person.
Maybe there aren’t actual fat-hate beads.
The truth is, every time a group is singled out for discrimination, humiliation, and hatred, our collective culture suffers. Things get shallower and things get meaner. And we all suffer from that.
The truth is, fat rights ARE a social justice issue because social justice concerns itself with who has rights and power and who doesn’t.
The truth is, even if this were, as Dan Savage so dismissively put it, about the right to be attractive, well…. Fuck, yeah. I have the right to be considered attractive by the people who consider me attractive. They have the right to be attracted. That doesn’t make me a freak and it doesn’t make them freaks. What it DOES mean is that, just as I love to see a same-sex couple walking on the sidewalk holding hands, I’d love to see a couple of fat people or a thin person and a fat person or any combination thereof walking down the sidewalk holding hands without being afraid of harassment and hatred.
I wish Dan Savage felt as strongly about my right to basic human dignity as I feel about his.
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I wish Dan Savage felt as strongly about my right to basic human dignity as I feel about his.
Ding ding ding! That is totally it exactly.
And considering he completely misunderstood my sarcasm in that thread — and accused me of exactly what I was sarcastically calling him out on — I can appreciate the desire to clarify when you’re being sarcastic. *headdesk*
Given that you were parodying a position he litterally took himself, his obliviousness to the sarcasm is entirely defenceless.
I gotta wonder if they do get beads given how reliably satisfied so many progressives get when they fat bash. Its like an easy way to get irreverent bona fides. Just bash some fatties. No one cares about them.
What it all boils down to is human rights. Every human being deserves respect and equality.
very well put. *applauds*
You have the right to be considered attractive? OK. Do I have the right to consider you unattractive?
Rights are one thing. Aesthetics are another. I don’t think you serve the cause by appearing to connect them.
Anon, of course. You also have the right to reading comprehension. Do exercise it.
Anon, you totally have the right to think I am unattractive. That is actually the point – we all have the right to our personal aesthetics. Acknowledging that doesn’t hurt the cause – because the cause is not making everyone think fat people are attractive.
But here is the difference: if someone thinks a thin person is unattractive, they don’t fuck that person. If someone thinks a fat person is unattractive, they throw things or verbally harass the fat person as they walk down the side of the road.
You know, Anon’s comment says it all. It really isn’t about health with these people. It is about aesthetics.
I have never heard a fat/body acceptance person say “Everyone should find me attractive.”, but I’ve seen a lot of size bigots focus on how unattractive fat people look. They just cover it up with “health speak”.
“I have the right to be considered attractive by the people who consider me attractive. “-TR
Just to clarify Anon.
It’s also nice to know that even though you are trying to ’support’ us fatties(?), we have to be on our best behaviour, and not as slack as those that insist that such and such slim person/ people are attractive, even if I think they aren’t,(without being told I’m jealous or whatever). And by the way, how about having a word about insisting that fat people find themselves unattractive, Thanks!
When I was unattached and looking, I put an ad on OK Cupid. With a full body shot (well, OK, from the knees up, which tells you everything you need to know).
I also made it quite clear in my ad that I was “horizontally gifted.” Crystal clear. You know why? Because I knew my appearance (plus my age, 40+) would be a deal-breaker for 99% of the men on there. In fact, I knew some men even got furiously outraged when they found out the woman they thought they liked was fat, even after they were told by the woman before meeting exactly what size she was. (This happened to a friend of mine.)
Fine. I didn’t want thousands of responses. I didn’t even want dozens. I wanted quality, not quantity. I wanted the guys who didn’t have to be convinced that I had something. I wasn’t looking to talk anyone into finding me attractive. And I found exactly who I was looking for, thank you. Two years and counting now.
All I want is for those who do find fat bodies attractive not to be told there’s something wrong with them. That’s NOT the same thing as saying, “Everyone must find my fat ass attractive.” That would be silly. Chemistry is a highly personal, individual thing, and even if someone has everything you want “on paper,” that doesn’t necessarily mean you pair-bond with them. I just want the social stigma to go away.
But really, “you just want everyone to want to fuck you,” even paraphrased, is beneath Dan Savage’s intelligence. And if he really thinks there are more important issues to be discussed, I look forward to his column featuring people with real problems that need solution — like, you know, starvation and war and stuff.
Meowser – the one time I posted an ad on Craigslist, even though I posted with photos, even though I described myself as both “curvy” and “difficult” and later went into more detail about my size and political preferences, the responses from men (I posted one for men, one for women, as I’m an equal-opportunity employer so to speak) that were positive were probably outnumbered 10 to 1 by the ones that excoriated me for posting, called me every hateful name in the book, tried to taunt me for being fat and ugly, called me a man-hater, told me no one would ever love me or even fuck me, etc. etc.
They wanted to kick my ass for looking for someone who found me (physically and mentally) attractive.
I think as much as Dan wants to position himself outside the mainstream, he has a lot in common with those dudes.
You know, Elusis, shit like you describe makes me thank Bast I’m over 40. Once you say you’re over 40, it seems, the guys who are royally pissed that there aren’t enough trophy girls to go around don’t even bother reading the rest of your ad anymore. And that’s fine with me. I’ll bet anything most of the assberets who answered your ad were no prizes themselves, not even physically.
I can’t see the Dan Savage link to Shakesville. It’s a shame because Dan Savage’s hatred of fat people irritates me to death. I would have loved to have read that post.
People who find me attractive should have the right to do so without being belittled by fat-haters. I don’t care if someone finds me unattractive, but if they try to shame my significant other for being with a fat person, that’s really asinine. Don’t shit on someone else’s relationship just because you are a bigot.